Interview (Part 6): Sam Boyer

My interview with the 2022 Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winner.

Sam Boyer wrote the original screenplay “Ojek” which won a 2022 Nicholl Fellowship in Screenwriting. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Sam about his creative background, his award-winning script, the craft of screenwriting, and what winning the Nicholl Award has meant to him.

Today in the final installment in this 6-part series, Sam shares some tips on the craft of screenwriting and gives advice to aspiring writers.

Scott: How about theme? You strike me as someone who, when you are writing the script, think thematically. Like money and morality, and that sort of thing. Is that stuff that’s more upfront, or is that stuff you discover along the way?

Sam: Man, saying I think of it upfront makes me seem smarter, more cerebral than I really am. And I’m not really sure I do think of theme at the very outset.

When I’m sitting down to write something, it’s always…I start with concept, what this story is about in a couple of lines. I do start off the logline. Then, I do try to think of the characters, and what themes they could play with from there. Sometimes, it surprises me.

I don’t think money was the very first thing I thought of with Ojek. It wound up being a guiding plot principle that worked its way into every character’s code of belief, too.

A lot of theme, at least in my scripts, is one of those things I almost discover in retrospect, but I try to keep the character journeys front of mind.

I really want them to have an arc where they end up in a different place and are authentically navigating through a setting. Whether that’s Jakarta or some fantasy universe, I really want those things to feel true, and then they lend themselves to honest themes as well.

Scott: You mentioned that for you, a not authentic or effective way to write a scene is to sit down and write it. Like you’re doing something else, or out walking, or taking a shower.

What are you thinking about when you’re thinking about a scene? What are some of the things you’re trying to accomplish when you’re writing a scene?

Sam: The truth is if my girlfriend walked in this room, she’d go, “You’re full of crap with that. I see you sit at a computer all day trying to think of new ideas.” I would tell her, “I’m thinking of them when I’m not sitting, too.”

Scott: When you’re sitting down to write a scene, what are your goals? What are you trying to accomplish?

Sam: One of my goals is to get to the end. What’s beautiful about outlining is I know where I want to go next. I’ve already solved a bunch of those problems in my head.

The thing that scared me and screwed me up the first couple of times I tried writing a feature was I would blind go into it, and not know where I was supposed to go next at the end of the scene. It leaves so much less room, at least, for me, in terms of the craft that you can put in there.

I rarely, if ever, go into a scene without knowing what the next scene will potentially be. Because of that, I feel totally free. I know where I need to get by the end, and the characters can say almost whatever the heck they want during that process. You allow yourself to discover these things. You’re bowling with guardrails, and you’re going to hit a pin.

I am generally having a lot of fun when I write, because I’ve worried so much in the outlining stage. I also know that it won’t be perfect or a lot of times it won’t even be good.

A lot of the best things I’ve written, just in terms of scene work, have been times where I’ve just felt totally unencumbered, or every now and then, to borrow that Bejo example, I know he needs to convince Gede because other people who’ve read this, and I’ve read this, I have all these questions about why would he agree to do this.

Then you know he needs to tackle these concerns. You can think of where I’m coming from as a discerning audience member or someone who’s challenging this part of the story right now.

When characters can anticipate the audience and you’re deep enough into a script where you know where the audience is or the reader is, then you have a lot of fun because it’s like Fleabag talking to the reader to a certain extent. I just finished that for the first time yesterday, by the way.

Scott: What a show.

Sam: I was so late to the party. Oh, my God. When you’re really engaged and you’re in the flow, you feel are in an act of dialogue with a potential reader.

Scott: A couple more questions. Five, ten years from now, perfect world, what are you doing?

Sam: Oh, man. I’m doing this for health insurance [laughs] — — is the short, sassy answer. In five years, I’d love to have something produced. I’d love to be gainfully employed writing scripts for features and TV. The goal ten years is I’m helping other people do it too, in a producing role.

There are so many brilliant writers out there. One thing I’ve learned through all of this journey, there are so many talented people. We all have our own story to tell. Helping other people commit theirs to screen, or at the very least to paper, is something I’m totally interested in as well. Years down the line, that includes teaching.

Scott: As they say in Hollywood, from your lips to God’s ears. What advice do you have for aspiring screenwriters to hone their craft and hopefully break into the business?

Sam: Sorry. I’m trying to think on this, and make sure it’s something useful.

My friends and I in LA, we say this all the time ‑‑ it’s a war of attrition. You truly only lose by giving up. That said, there’s nothing wrong with deciding your dream is different. Dreams change.

In terms of the goal of screenwriting, you probably aren’t giving yourself enough years. [laughs] I would say give yourself a good, long time. You only ever are out of the game by giving up. Also, you can give up, and then get back into it.

Then, the last thing is I would honestly try to enjoy the craft, and enjoy writing more. Give yourself moments where you can celebrate and compliment yourself, and surround yourself with a community.

It can take any shape or form of people who are similarly guided and motivated by writing, because, absolutely, no one does it alone. I’ve never seen anyone get close to where they want to be alone.

Ojek is ‑‑ and I said this at my speech ‑‑ it’s like the thank‑yous are the story here. That there are so many people who’ve helped me write the script, or become a better writer. It’s all due to that support in that community.

Surround yourself with people who will motivate you, and stop worrying so much. Enjoy writing because it’s a lot of fun, and it’s not that big a deal. At the end of the day, you should be in this because you love it. There’s so many other ways to make an easier living.

For Part 1 of the interview, go here.

For Part 2, go here.

For Part 3, go here.

For Part 4, go here.

For Part 5, go here.

Sam is repped by Range Media Partners.

For my interviews with every Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winner since 2012, go here.

For my interviews with Black List writers, go here.