Interview (Part 6): Brian Arnold

My interview with 2021 Black List writer for his script In the End.

Brian Arnold wrote the original screenplay “In the End” which landed on the 2021 Black List. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Brian about his creative background, his script, the craft of screenwriting, and what making the annual Black List has meant to him.

Today in Part 6 of a 6 part series to run each day through Saturday, Brian shares some insights into the screenwriting craft and provides advice to aspiring screenwriters.

Scott: Let’s jump to some craft questions. Apart from hanging out in West Virginia with your father reminiscing about near-death car crashes and whatnot, how do you come up with story ideas?

Brian: Oh, man, it’s a good question. I wish I had a great answer for it other than, I think we’re all just sort of a collection of our influences and experiences.

Coming from a news background, studying broadcast journalism and working briefly in news, I really stay up on current events and what’s happening in the world. Most of what I write has some degree of either “relevant now” or a “5–10-minutes-from-now” kind of feel.

I would say personal experience, watching movies, TV shows, the news, reading books — it all kind of congeals in my brain, and sometimes ideas come out, and sometimes they don’t.

Scott: You mentioned that you’re not much of an outliner…

Brian: A little bit. More than I used to be.

Scott: I was going to say, because I’ve talked to other writers who worked with Bellevue, and John…

Brian: John [Zaozirny] loves an outline.

[laughter]

Scott: What’s your current process like?

Brian: I’m more of an outliner now. That’s definitely a Bellevue thing, which is great. At this point, now I have a good writers’ group that I like a lot. Actually, two writers have been on Black List, which is a wild… I had to join them. So, it’s nice to have a group to bring outlines to and hear if it sounds like a movie or not before I dig in.

John’s process is very, “Let’s develop this together and figure this out.” Which is new to me, but I think it will definitely help improve my process.

One of the reasons I historically have not been a big outliner is I have a lot of experience with improv. I know that’s a weird thing to say, but there are times when I’ll have an outline and I’ll be writing and be like, “That character wouldn’t say that. That feels so fake. I’m only having the character do that because this thing is supposed to happen next.”

I like to give characters freedom to surprise me and take over the plot themselves. I’m trying to write a lot of these scenes as improvisation, in that: there’s a game to the scene. There’s a reason this scene exists, and this is where it needs to go. Let’s let these characters talk to each other and see what comes out of it. Improv has been such a big part of my process that I was always nervous to outline too deeply.

When I signed with John, I asked him, “I know you mentioned how much you really value outlines, but historically, I like to have a little bit of freedom to surprise myself. What if I’m writing something and it doesn’t mesh with the outline?”

He said, “Then just email me and tell me that it doesn’t work anymore.” I was like, “Okay great, that works.” It’s that simple.

Scott: That speaks character development. I’m assuming you want to get into the actual writing of the characters as soon as possible to get to know them. Is that a fair take?

Brian: Yeah, that’s fair. My process is concept and theme are the first things and then like, “Okay, what characters really fit in there and what characters are best suited to tell that story? What kind of person really needs to be hit over the head with this theme?”

I try to write little character bios, but it doesn’t totally come together for me until I’m actually writing the characters and hearing their voices, and seeing how they bounce off each other.

Scott: Similarly for dialogue, same thing, just getting…

Brian: I would say, probably a lot of people do this, but one of my tricks I talk about is I always cast the movie in my head as I’m writing it because I can hear the dialogue more clearly if I know like, “Oh, yeah, this sounds like something that this person would say. I can hear it in their voice, in their cadence.”

Scott: They call it “star casting.” Have you starred cast “In the End” yet or no?

Brian: I have, but we’re going out to actors right now, so I don’t want to say. [laughs]

Scott: Okay, so let’s say you’re sitting down, you’re going to write a scene. What are your goals when you sit down to write a scene?

Brian: I try not to have too many expectations for a particular day in terms of page count. I’ve written a first draft in a week, and I’ve written a first draft in six months. I am trying to be more of a “write every day” writer than I have been historically, though.

I think, in my opinion, a lot of people put too much value on speed. There is obviously importance to that when it comes to deadlines, but in my mind, scripts take as long as they take. Within reason, of course. I don’t think anyone wants to wait two years for your next script or anything like that.

I like to take my time, feeling scenes out. I don’t like to really dive into a scene until I know why it needs to exist. I remember an improv class I had. We were doing a scene and the teacher stopped us. He said something like, “Why are we watching this right now? Is this the first time this has ever happened? Or is this the last time this will happen?”

He said those were the only two scenes we should be performing, “Oh, shit, this has never happened before,” or “This is the last freaking time this thing is going to happen.”

I go into every scene with, “Why is this here? Why am I watching this?” If I don’t have a good answer, then I either need to change the scene or just lose it.

Scott: Oh, I like that, because I always tell my students, “First thing you need to ask is what’s the point of the scene? Why does it exist?”

Brian: Yeah, for sure.

Scott: I like this language. It’s never happened before or it’s the last time it’s happened. It really puts a point on it.

Brian: I think so.

Scott: You mentioned right up front that you love movies and then you mentioned at one point how “Scrubs” was an influence on you. I’m curious whether you’re thinking in terms of TV, because if you are, then outlining is going to become your best friend.

Brian: Oh, sure, absolutely. I’d definitely have to adjust my process in a writer’s room.

[laughter]

Scott: You got the comedy background, are you thinking TV here?

Brian: I’m definitely open to TV. I love TV. The idea of spending eight seasons with characters scares me a little bit. I love telling one story and getting out of there, but that’s a whole different muscle I’d love to try.

If there were something I created or something that really called my name, I’d for sure be into the opportunity. Coming from sketch comedy, I really enjoy being surrounded by all these other people, working together, creating together.

Scott: One last question here for you. Now that you’re over APA and Bellevue, you had a script optioned and you’ve got on the 2021 Black List, what advice can you offer to aspiring screenwriters about how to learn the craft and break into the business?

Brian: It’s a good question. First, I’d say find a writer’s group. Not only is it helpful to get notes that make your script better, but writing can be lonely work. It’s so much better when you have a community to lean on.

In terms of learning the craft, my love for it started young, but it doesn’t really matter when you fall in love with it. Whenever you do come to it, study the things that you love, the things that you hit you in the emotions. Study those movies, study those scripts.

The screenwriting books. There’s a lot of good wisdom in those things, especially in terms of structure. Once you’ve learned the structure of the three acts, the midpoint, the nadir and all these things, re-watch the things you love and pinpoint the structure. A lot of people fight back against structure, but once you realize you can do anything inside that box, there’s so much fun and freedom in that.

There’s an Ira Glass quote that I’m going to get wrong, but he talks about how it takes a lot of time for your taste to match your abilities. You fall in love with this thing that you want to do and the first few times you do it, you’re really bad at it, and that’s fine. You’re supposed to be. The reason you love these things is your taste and eventually your abilities creep toward that taste. And eventually, they hopefully come together.

So, I would say, “Don’t get discouraged if your first two, three, four, five, six scripts don’t go anywhere. It’s not a get rich quick scheme by any means. The first script that I wrote was an X-Men 2 spec when I was 14. I’m 34. It took me 20 years to be a working writer. Ten years in LA.

Just keep writing. If you love it, keep going.

For Part 1 of the interview, go here.

Part 2, go here.

Part 3, go here.

Part 4, go here.

Part 5, go here.

Brian is repped by:

John Zaozirny & Kate Sharp (Bellevue)
Sheryl Petersen, Adam Perry, & Halle Mariner (APA)

Twitter and Instagram: @briantarnold.

For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.