Interview (Part 5): Michael Kujak

My interview with 2021 Black List writer for his script Follow.

Michael Kujak wrote the original screenplay “Follow” which landed on the 2021 Black List. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Mike about his creative background, his script, the craft of screenwriting, and what making the annual Black List has meant to him.

Today in Part 5 of a 6-part series to run each day through Saturday, Mike talks about the actual process of writing the script and the role his managers played in that story-crafting process.

Scott: Let’s talk about the actual writing of the script. You had this idea for a while. You meet with John Zaozirny your manager at Bellevue. He says, “I like this idea.” How long was that process where you started developing it, to the point where it’s going out to people?

Michael: We started that about three and a half years ago, working on the script. It was awhile ago now. A lot of it got paused because of COVID. We were working on other things.

John is a very close, hands-on manager. I liked that. I was already a big outline fan before him. The way we work is I’ll write Act One of the outline. Then I’ll go to him. I’ll get notes. We’ll rewrite it. Then Act Two of the outline, go back to him. There’s no big period where I go off and write a big draft of the entire thing. We do block it out like that all the way through.

We put the time into the idea and the outline early and upfront, so that we don’t waste too much time on an idea that’s not going to pay off later on. A lot of heavy outlining in the beginning. That was probably about four months. Then we did another maybe five months on the first draft.

John has another great thing at Bellevue that he calls the Circle of Trust. I think every single literary manager should be doing this. All of his clients give notes on each other’s scripts once they’re to a place that we like it enough to bring to them. You

It’s helpful to get 10 or more different opinions on your script, all from other writers, other thinkers, that are somewhat around your level/ All these collective thoughts coming in, it was good for feedback. There’s so much of it.

If the same comment pops up 10 times, it’s almost undeniable. It’s like, “Yes, this is something we need to fix about the script.” That’s a helpful tool to have writing with John.

Scott: How did John and your other reps handle getting the script out there? Obviously, it did. It generated enough interest that people voted for it for the Black List.

Michael: We started by taking it out to different production companies. We met with three or four different ones. I was blown away by my interview with Emily Morris at 21 Laps.

21 Laps did Stranger Things. They do a lot of great stuff but that was also a coming of age horror thriller. That was something that they were very good with. Emily gave fantastic notes and got it right away.

It’s almost like a first date or something like that, where you feel a connection with someone, someone who gets it. We developed a whole other draft of the script based on that meeting with her. Over the course of four or five months, a whole other rewrite with the production company.

Once we finished that draft, we were trying to attach different people to it. Didn’t have a lot of luck there. We were about to take it out to the studios, and then COVID hi so we had to pause for awhile.

When things started to get back to some kind of normal again, we took it out to some of the different studios and we’re still waiting to hear back on some of those. That’s where the script is at now. It probably took a year and a half to write. Then another three or four months to rewrite with the production company.

Then about nine months of pause with COVID. Then about half a year here, where we’ve finally started to take it out to the studios and try to sell it.

Scott: On Monday morning, December 13th, where were you when the Black List was rolling out?

Michael: I was in Solvang, this small getaway town just outside of LA. My girlfriend and I were out shopping at the little main street shops and I got the call from John. I was like, “Oh, it’s going to be another studio that passed on the script.” He called and said I made the Black List. That was really, really cool. Also, it happened in front of my girlfriend’s parents so that was nice timing.

I’ve read every Black’s script for the last six or seven years. The Black List scripts would all leak on Reddit screenwriting thread. I would read one a week till I’d worked my way through the list.

I thought they were a great tool for learning screenwriting. The Black List was a huge deal to me. Getting on it was really, really fun. I did a little dance. We got drunk.

Scott: I was going to say, you’re in the wine country up there in Solvang. That would be a nice little rounding it out. You and your friend Rachel saying, “Let’s go to LA.” An alcohol inspired decision. Then, boom. The Black List. “Let’s have a little bit of vino here to celebrate.”

Michael: Yeah. It was definitely right around Christmas time. It was the perfect time to find out, and fun.

Scott: That’s great. Congratulations again for making the Black List. We’ve got time here for some craft questions. You mentioned you’ve got this list of story ideas. How do you come up with story ideas?

Michael: I keep a list throughout the year, a Microsoft Word list. I track any ideas that I have. Basically, I write them out specifically as loglines. I try not to make little sketches of notes or anything. I force myself to try to put it in logline form or this meets that.

I keep a list of that going on throughout the year. I’m lucky if I get one a month. By the end of the year, you’ve got 10 or 12 and once we’re done with the next project, I can bring them to my manager. I can say, “Do you think any of these could sell? Do you think any of them are worth investing our time in?”

It’s a pretty practical, good way to do things. In terms of conjuring up the ideas, I never sit down and try to come up with a movie idea.

Normally, I’m listening to a podcast or I’m watching another movie. You’re watching a comedy, and you’re like, “Well, what if this was a thriller?” You’re watching a thriller, “What if this is a comedy?” Easier stuff like that. I’ve gotten a lot from podcasts. History podcasts, true crime stuff. Stumbling upon stories that I didn’t know about.

They come from all different areas. Having that sheet, a specific place to write them down and track them throughout the year and have them ready to go when it’s time to do the next thing, is helpful.

Talking to John, there are a lot of writers. They finish the last thing, and it’s like, “Well, what’s next?” Now they’ve got to start accumulating those ideas or trying to force yourself to come up with one, which I don’t think I could ever do.

Scott: It’s very helpful that you’ve got John over at Bellevue to help you sort through your story concepts. Are you putting your producer’s hat on when you’re looking at these ideas that come up? Are you saying, “What’s marketable, who’s the audience?” Any of that or are you just generating the ideas?

Michael: Early on, it was literally whatever I wanted to do. Then you learn to put the hat on a little bit. That was a thing with reading the Black List. You start to see these trends. You start to see certain things that are a little bit more popular.

Again, it’s never good to chase a trend, necessarily. But it’s also good to know that they exist, or a certain box that a type of idea could fit into. With Follow, I had that moment with the young girl at the party, where that came about all organically.

Having that specific box of late ’80s, early ’90s thrillers to put it in, that’s what combined it into like, “Oh, OK, this one’s ready for the Microsoft Word doc.” [laughs] I’m like, “Now this is a good one we could combine. It could be something.”

You come to it at the end of the year, and if it still interests you a year later then it’s time-tested too. I trust it more if it interests me a year after I had it. Everything interests you the day you have it. You’re like, “Oh, my god, I can’t wait to start it.” If it sticks around, then you know it’s a good one.

Tomorrow in Part 6, Mike talks the craft of screenwriting and offers advice for aspiring screenwriters.

For Part 1 of the interview, go here.

Part 2, go here.

Part 3, go here.

Part 4, go here.

Mike is repped by:

John Zaozirny (Bellevue)
CJ Fight (WME)

For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.