Interview (Part 5): Cameron Fay

My interview with the 2024 Black List writer for his script Until You.

Cameron Fay wrote the screenplay Until You which landed on the 2024 Black List. Recently, I had the opportunity to do a deep dive with Cameron into his filmmaking background, writing his Black List script, and his approach to the craft of screenwriting.

Today in Part 5 of a 6-part series to run each day this week, Cameron reveals what it has been like to be a two-time Black List writer.

Scott: I interviewed Ava DuVernay years ago, after her first two indie films. She said a similar thing. I think it was about that project, “Middle of Nowhere,” that she did, where she did a draft where she was doing like what you’re saying.

It was like, “I’m going to be rewriting this, but I’m going to be taking it with a special attention to this character.” I tell my students a similar thing. It’s like, “You can think of each character as their own protagonist because in their experience, they are their own protagonist.”

You can do a pass on each character to just make sure that there’s a plausibility, an authenticity, and then even more depth that you can discover. Speaking of depth, your dialogue is great.

Cameron: Oh, thank you.

Scott: I had that sense because Mallory, Foster and Zachary have a wit and verbal sophistication. How, just generally, do you find characters’ voices?

Cameron: I do a character bio for the leads, not usually so much for the supporting roles, but for the main characters, I’ll do a page of just where they came from, what they want, how they view the world. Then small things like how do they send food back when it’s wrong at a restaurant.

Some people are like, “I’ll just eat it.” Some people are like, “Excuse me, sir. This isn’t what I ordered.” I just get into their voice through everyday things that we all do. I don’t do this all the time. Sometimes, I’ll write a scene that I know won’t be in the movie just to get sense of what they could say.

A lot of times, it’s also finding it as I write and then going back and altering it as they start to emerge as characters through scenes. With this film, it’s a romantic movie, but we’re playing a little bit with some of the tropes of the romantic comedy in the first half of the movie. Then we realize, “Well, this is maybe not a comedy so much.”

I wanted a little bit of the pacing of the classic romantic comedy with the rat‑a‑tat between the male‑female leads. Just to play on those tropes a bit. Sometimes, I wanted the dialogue to be a little bit poppier and wittier, just to play with that a bit. Ultimately, it’s really just finding it as you go. [laughs]

Scott: I do want to mention one thing that I thought was, I smiled at quite a bit. Zachary has a spelling bee, where he’s been spelling. I think it’s the big word that he needs to spell, and it was “denouement.” I was like, “OK. That sounds like a screenwriter there.”

Cameron: That’s too on the nose.

[laughter]

Scott: No. I loved it. I was like, “Oh, that’s a little winking at the screenwriting community.”

Cameron: He’s spelling “denouement” during the denouement. I got to that point. I just didn’t know what he was supposed to spell. I just…

Scott: I loved it.

Cameron: Well, it’s a hard word to spell, for me at least.

Scott: The ending, I don’t want to get into the specifics of it, and I’ll just allow you to answer however you want. Did you always have that final resolution in mind for the various characters?

Cameron: I had the final image of the ending for sure. I knew that’s where I was headed. Leading up to that final moment, I had a much longer sequence written out in the outline. As I was writing the first draft of the ending though, where she’s hasn’t shown up at the spelling bee and he’s going back to the apartment, I realized I just wanted things to happen faster. I don’t know why. I think it’s the feeling of time slipping through your fingers and you can’t stop it.

I wanted it to feel like things were happening too fast for Foster. He couldn’t stop what was coming. That ending came about in just the writing of the first draft. It was very different from the outline.

Scott: You get this draft. I think you said that, it was in the fall or it’s summer maybe. It’s getting around town, and it eventually gets read by enough people and people respond positively. It makes the Black List. What does that mean for you getting a script on the annual Black List?

Cameron: It’s great. It’s so cool. Who called me first? I’m trying to remember now. Maybe the producer. Someone called me. No, I got an invite to the Black List party a couple days prior. I thought, “Oh, maybe I got on the Black List,” but they didn’t say that. I thought, “Well, I was on the Black List five years ago, so maybe they’re just inviting me to the party…”

I know sometimes alumni of the Black List get invited to the party. I thought, “I better not get my hopes up here because it might just be that I’m invited because I’m an alumni.” I love what all of you guys are doing there. It’s so helpful to screenwriters. I think it helps the script.

The actress playing Mallory had just attached before it got on the Black List, but I got a nice voicemail from her after she saw it made the list. She was so excited and supportive.

Then, when I was meeting the actor who is now attached to play Foster. He was like, “Oh, I heard this made the Black List, by the way. Congrats, man!” I think it really helped give some confidence to the actors. It’s a nice validation.

And it’s a nice feather in your cap. This town is all about validation. If someone else liked it, then you know? It’s just so nice. I felt really happy to be on it.

Scott: Well, congratulations, two‑time Black List writer. That’s wonderful.

Cameron: I know. I got on in 2019, and then the pandemic happened. I just thought, “Well, at least I got on once. I might never get on again,” so twice now is pretty nice, man.

Scott: Well, again, congratulations. Let’s ask a couple of craft questions here for you. How do you come up with story ideas?

Cameron: I think this is one of my biggest weaknesses. I’m not good at coming up with story ideas. I know there are so many great writers who just come up with these incredible log lines for movies. I go, “Oh, I wish I thought of that. That’s such a good idea for a movie.” I just toil away here thinking of ideas for the movies. And generally, they come from something in my life.

It’s usually based on something I’ve experienced, a friend experienced, something that I can connect to, that I can turn even the kernel of it into…It’s always something personal for me.

I wish I could write bigger blockbuster type of movies. My agents really wish I could do that too. [laughs] Maybe one day, we’ll see.

Scott: You outline. Talk a bit about that process because it sounds like you outline, but then there’s some flexibility. I know some writers say, “I don’t want to know everything about the story before I pipe it in. I like to discover things along the way.” Maybe talk about your philosophy of breaking story.

Cameron: I think I’m in the middle. There are some people that outline every single moment of a scene. They write a lot of dialogue in there, in the outline. One of my favorite screenwriters is this guy Steve Conrad. I’ve heard that, maybe he’s changed this, but I think I saw an interview or something where he said he doesn’t really outline. I love his scripts. I think his scripts are brilliant.

I’m too scared to do that. For me, I just need to know generally where it’s going. I usually just start with a document that says, “Open on,” and then I create a bunch of space and then “inciting incident,” and then a bunch of space, and then “end of first act,” then I write “beginning of second act,” “midpoint,” and then “end of second act,” “going into the third act,” and then the “ending.”

I fill in the broad strokes of it. Maybe some images like the opening shot, like the ending shot, maybe some dialogue. If there’s a piece of dialogue that I think is really great, funny or interesting, I’ll just write that so I don’t forget it. I just want to know that I have a safety net of where it’s going generally even though I usually throw out that document.

I never look at it at a certain point. I just like to have it, even if for the exercise of doing it. I’ve never written an outline and followed it strictly. I’ve always deviated from it.

Tomorrow in Part 6, Cameron answers some questions about the craft of screenwriting.

For Part 1 of the interview, go here.

Part 2, here.

Part 3, here.

Part 4, here.

Cameron is repped by Paradigm and Kaplan/Perrone Entertainment.

For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.