Interview (Part 4): Kieran Turner

My interview with 2022 Black List writer for his script Black Dogs.

Kieran wrote the original screenplay Black Dogs which landed on the 2022 Black List. I had the opportunity to chat with Kieran about his creative background, writing a Black List script, and the craft of screenwriting.

Today in Part 4 of a 6-part series to run each day through Sunday, Kieran goes into detail describing how some of the script’s characters came to life.

Scott: It’s been described, I saw it somewhere as Almost Famous meets Reservoir Dogs. When I was reading the script, I was thinking Ocean’s Eleven meets Airheads. I don’t know if you ever saw that movie?

Kieran: Sure. I remember Airheads. Yeah.

Scott: With Brendan Fraser, Steve Buscemi, and Adam Sandler. Let’s talk about the characters in Black Dogs. I’m really interested to hear your thoughts on this because The Heist is Act Three. The majority of the movie is the relationship between these characters. Let me get your impressions on these characters.

First, the Protagonist of the story is Patrick. Here in the script is how he’s introduced:

“Patrick 20, longest share army jacket. Unkempt in a tough but tender way, the leader, even if he doesn’t want to be.”

Could you talk a bit about the genesis of this character? Did that derive from the book?

Kieran: I would say that probably Patrick is the closest in character in the script to the book. He’s the leader in that he cares about these guys. Even though he goes away, disappears for a few months in the beginning of the story, because of a botched B&E at somebody’s house, he comes back wanting to make amends with the friends that he left behind.

He brings this idea of, I’ve come up with this great heist, and it will bring us enough money that we can go and do whatever we want and start over and we can do it together. I think that he’s always looked at himself as the dad figure, even though they’re all the same age, and the responsible one.

The other guys have always looked up to him. He was the one that taught them what to do in terms of how to steal, how to get away with it, how to look cool, how to skate by. Patrick always knew that even though Alex is the one that comes from the family of thieves.

Patrick’s always been the one that’s kept everybody in line. There’s something anal and uncool about Patrick as much as he tries to be cool. I would say that, I maybe augmented that.

It was in the book, but the thing about Patrick is that, he’s the…I don’t want to necessarily make it sound like giving him an attribute of a much older person, but he’s almost like the den mother of the group. He’s always worried that people aren’t going to do things correctly and he wants to make sure that you know your part and it’s drilled into you, yet, he is pretty fucking cool.

Scott: You mentioned that there is an incident. That’s interesting to hear you say that the heist, in some respects, is a way of making up for something that happens.

Another character: Alex. Here’s how he is described. “20, slicked back hair, long leather jacket, smoking a Newport, white Soul Train, the cool one.”

Alex and Patrick are lifelong friends.

Kieran: Yeah, are lifelong friends. That was pretty much about it in terms of Alex in the book. Again, every time I say something like that, it’s not to denigrate it at all. Where I saw Alex was somebody who didn’t necessarily want to steal. In the script, we find out that Alex might have some ambitions of becoming an actor, of actually making something of his life.

That was something that was definitely not in the book at all. I wanted to give these characters reasons for wanting to do this and aspiring to something more because what they’ve basically been told their whole lives is, “You’re just going to be Baltimore gutter trash the rest of your life. You’re probably going to wind up in jail.”

If they don’t have any ambitions that you know about, it’s hard to root for them because then it all really does become about is stealing the money. When I looked at Alex, I thought this is somebody who is torn between wanting to do what his family thinks he should be doing and then also wanting to do what Patrick thinks he should be doing, whereas he doesn’t want to do either of those.

Scott: He wants to be an actor.

Kieran: He wants to be an actor. He’s really good‑looking. The book made him much more of a ladies’ man. I wound up cutting some of that stuff out because it wasn’t necessarily serving the plot or the characters. I found something else that I wanted to bring to his story.

Alex, in the book, was very much the sexy one that all the girls were after. He just exuded that rakish charm.

Scott: Then, there is this trickster character, Danny, who’s the uncle.

“Thirty‑ish, handlebar mustache, ex‑high school football star, now a small‑time crook who still has the swagger of his glory days.”

Kieran: Danny, in terms of character, he’s similar to what he is in the book. I just involved him a lot more in the story. He gets involved a lot more in the heist than he did in the book. He’s kind of a doofus.

I also wrote him to be putting more pressure on Alex. “You have to choose. It’s the family or your friends.”

Scott: He’s great because, as I said, he feels like a trickster, because there are times where he just really messes things up, including this first incident. There’s a house. People are away. The three of them going to go in, and they’re going to boost some stuff.

Then Danny fixates on a a moose head. The robbery goes south. The cops show up. Danny leaves these two guys. Alex gets caught, and Patrick gets away.

That’s this thing that you were talking about that later on…because Alex goes to jail for six months. This heist thing is, subtextual, underneath it all, is like, “Hey, I want to make up for what I did.”

Kieran: Yeah. Alex doesn’t rat Patrick out. Patrick doesn’t mean to leave Alex. I think the code is basically if you can get away, get away. You have to trust that your partner isn’t going to rat you out, and Alex didn’t.

Patrick didn’t necessarily have it thought out correctly, but he didn’t mean Alex any harm. He does come back. He disappears and goes to New York for six months until the heat’s off.

He comes back, and he brings Alex this idea. He’s been working for this catering company that services a lot of the bands that come through the New York area. He worked for Zeppelin for a couple of times in different places. He was able to put together this scheme.

He comes back and says, “You’re the guy that I need to do this with. I don’t want to do this if I’m not going to do it with you.” Alex is a little suspicious about it and he’s also got a bit of a grudge because he…Certainly, he’s got Danny in his ear every minute of the day saying, “It was Patrick’s fault that you went to jail. It wasn’t my fault, it was Patrick’s fault that you went to jail.”

Patrick feels guilty about it. Patrick, they’ve been friends for years and years and years and Patrick thinks, this is how I’m going to assuage my guilt, but we’re going to need shitload of money at the same time.

Scott: The catering gig he saw that Led Zeppelin they had cash and all that stuff, and so that’s where the idea came from. The two other characters of these four, if we can quickly go through them. Frenchie, this is how he’s introduced.

“Behind the counter sits Frenchie, 20, a scrawny music geek with a sloppy Keith Richard style haircut, noodling on a guitar.”

He’s the authentic musician here and actually quite good as a guitar player. Was that character in the book?

Kieran: That character was in the book and he had the music talent. We involved him a little bit more in the heist than he was. He goes to New York at the end, but he gets involved a lot more in the script and he becomes the stand‑in for the audience and he becomes the excuse.

I don’t want to say excuse, but he becomes the justification for these four guys robbing Zeppelin, because he basically tells you, “Zeppelin did this and maybe they borrowed a little bit.” When Patrick wants to say, “Oh, Zeppelin are thieves.” It’s like, “No, man, that’s how music is, and there’s nothing wrong with those guys.”

He gives the audience the permission to not hate these guys for robbing their favorite band.

Scott: It’s one of my favorite scenes in the movie, frankly, is this philosophical discussion they have coming with the rationale for it. Patrick’s like, “Yeah, OK.” Frenchie says, “Jimmy Page adapted the beginning of ‘Stairway to Heaven’ from the band Spirit.” By the way, I knew Randy California [lead guitarist and songwriter for Spirit].

Kieran: Oh, really?

Scott: Yeah. That family, they had that famous lawsuit against Led Zeppelin which they lost. Then Patrick goes, “That’s straight‑up thievery. We’re stealing from thieves.” Frenchie’s like, “I said borrow. Borrowing ideas is how music evolves. It’s Elvis Presley covering Little Richard and Stones covering Chicago blues. I’m not talking about taking money.”

Then Patrick’s rejoinder, “But Zeppelin made money on all those ideas they borrowed. We’re just taking a little something back. Zeppelin is so rich, they won’t even miss it. We’ll be like Robin Hood.” Then I love this last part. Frenchie says, “Except we’re keeping the money instead of giving it to the poor.” Patrick says, “Frenchie, man, we are poor.”

Kieran: That was something that I felt needed to be in there because we had to give the audience a reason to go, OK. It’s OK for them to do this.

Tomorrow in Part 5, Kieran talks about the status of the script after making the 2022 Black List.

For Part 1, go here.

Part 2, here.

Part 3, here.

Kieran is repped by Bellevue Productions.

Twitter: @jobriathdoc

For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.