Interview (Part 4): Greg Roque

My interview with 2022 Black List writer for his script Jerry!

Greg Roque wrote the original screenplay Jerry! which landed on the 2022 Black List. I had the opportunity to chat with Greg about his creative background, writing a Black List script, and the craft of screenwriting.

Today in Part 4 of a 6-part series to run each day through Sunday, Greg talks about some of Jerry’s key relationships in the script and how Citizen Kane was a reference in his writing process.

Scott: You mentioned something interesting earlier, which I picked up on the script. Very early on, he’s like a 12‑year‑old. There’s a little memory of him with his father and he’s saying, “Someday I like to be president.” His father said, “Unfortunately, you can’t do that because you weren’t born in the United States.”

There are these moments, and you mentioned that in his autobiography, he said the same thing. There’s a moment for example, where he’s on a first date with Mickey and he says, “This might sound a little brash, but if I could have my way, I’d want to be president or king.” He mentions that he would be an “enlightened despot.”

Do you think that was an earnest thing that he really did think that he could be, once he reached that power position an enlightened despot? Or is it more of just a reflection his desire to be king or president? He’s got a big ego.

Greg: A little bit of both. This goes back to my brief dalliance with philosophy in my undergrad. I included the term “enlightened despot” because I remember reading Plato’s “Republic,” and I was fascinated by the idea of a benevolent philosopher king tyrant.

I think Jerry means well, at least the Jerry that I’ve created. I don’t know what he secretly thinks. In my version he means well, but sometimes he lets his ego take over along with his pride and pomp. He imposes his will onto the world

I ultimately think he is a good guy at heart. The character truly believes he can be an enlightened despot.

Scott: Again, there’s these moments when he helps that lady who can’t afford baby formula, and he walks out and says, “Here, you forgot this.” He is a generous spirit. Also too, he’s on city council. I guess, an assistant says, “Hey, he’s stressed, maybe get a massage.” He ends up in a hotel room, it turns out to be a prostitute. As you mentioned, did he pay for a prostitute with a check? Is that what brought him down in real life?

Greg: Oh, yeah. Ever the class act that he is, he resigned from the city council when be probably didn’t have to. That is very much real.

Scott: Politicians all run away from everything. This guy not only confessed to his wife, this is one incident with a prostitute just one time. He resigned from the city council and did this on air. What’s interesting about it, is that a couple of things.

One, later on, people in Cincinnati it turns out like the guy or knew about the guy because of this honest confession. Two, he said at one point, “I’m not afraid of the truth even if it hurts.” I thought those are two‑stepping stones toward the show. One is this PR thing, there is no such thing as bad PR.

Two, the truth even if it hurts, it can be of value. Did you see that as stepping stones toward him in terms of making a point where you go, “I could do this TV show?”

Greg: Yeah. The thing about Jerry is, I do think he has integrity. This is both the character and Jerry Springer the person. There’s a scene later when he’s running for governor of Ohio. This was based off a real ad. My friend and I went on YouTube and we looked up some of the old campaign ads.

In his TV ad he says, “Yes, I paid a prostitute with a check. They’re going to throw this at me. It’s a distraction but look, here are my ideas.” He admits that he fucked up, but let’s focus on the real issues.

Imagine Trump saying, “Yeah, I cheated on my wife, I did all this stuff. I’ve learned. I want what’s best for America.” Instead politicians will say, “Oh, well, my opponent does this.” You don’t see responsibility in American politics. It’s almost an oxymoron where, Jerry — he’s a cheater, an adulterer, but he’s almost too pure for American politics.

Scott: Then you hit the midpoint of the script. He’s gone from city council to mayor of Cincinnati. Does that for quite a while, then he’s a news reporter and then an anchor man and wins all these Emmys. Eventually, that leads to someone suggesting because there’s Oprah and there’s Phil Donahue, why don’t you do a TV show?

That’s a slippery slope. He’s got Oliver North on and the ratings were terrible. You got these advisors saying, “Do you want to stay on air, you’re going to have to make some sacrifices.

If they’re going to cancel us, why not go out with a final run, do what no one else is doing?” Then at some point Jerry says, “I love what I’m doing, I’ll do whatever it takes to stay on the air.” Is that a little bit like that the guy flying to some kind of sun? [laughs] It’s like, getting killing that pole, and it’s starting to eat at his integrity?

Greg: Yeah. That’s the moment where it’s like, “Yeah, do you want to have the show canceled? Do you want to be this noble guy that everyone’s going to forget?” Or “Do you want to scratch and bite and try to claw your way to survive?” Jerry very much is a survivor and a fighter and a soldier.

He was like, “Let’s try it. Let’s go for it.” And that’s the slippery slope you mentioned. That’s when the evil and the slime and all that stuff consumes him. That makes for a fun act two and act three.

Scott: There’s a scene where he goes to Oprah’s house. Did that happen in real life, or was that something you fabricated?

Greg: He and Oprah did have a friendly rapport and they did meet, but that event has been fictionalized. Basically, it’s like that scene in Ed Wood where he meets his hero, Orson Welles. Orson Welles tells him, “You need to make the movie, you need to do what’s good.”

This whole time Jerry’s been arguing with Host Jerry, confronted with what he’s become and what he hates. Oprah serves as the divine oracle who shows him the proper path to balance and fulfilment.

Scott: She says prophetically. “Pretty soon we’ll have live sex and murder on daytime television, news show isn’t far behind. I’m sure you’ll get there next season.” Anyhow. Along with that plotline, the rise to success in the TV show, you’ve got that emotional throughline, the relationship with Mickey.

He says at one point, “The right amount of success can desensitize you to a lot of life’s obscenities. I kept working on the show and tried to make time for Mickey, but it was hard.” Then there’s also his daughter, Katie, who grows up along this way. You mentioned Citizen Kane, which is…I had the same thought.

It’s like, you got this going back in the past. You got politics, you got media, you got a guy who heads on a downward trajectory. There’s another movie that I thought of because of the Katie relationship and that Steve Jobs, where he’s got the relationship with that daughter and that ending thing where he shows up and says, “I’m going to make a Walkman.”

They have a report at the end. I don’t know if that maybe have been a subconscious thing, but do you want to talk about that relationship with Katie?

Greg: That’s interesting. I didn’t make the connection with the Steve Jobs and Lisa. I have seen the film. Subconsciously, it might have been there.

Citizen Kane is the obvious reference. Especially that scene where after the first incident with that racist pastor, and then he’s distraught because the guy, he was like, “I basically wish another Holocaust upon you and your people.”

It’s that Citizen Kane moment where him and his wife are eating dinner at the very long table. He’s gotten richer, and now the table creates more distance between them. That was definitely something I stole, where I was like, “I very much want that there.”

Jerry has been notoriously private about his relationship with his daughter. That’s the one thing he’s been protective of, and I really wanted to respect that.

That was me, I don’t want to say projecting but, as someone with a disability and as someone with parents who help with care, that’s where I had to put my relationship with my parents and stuff into the script in order to ground their dynamic.

I really don’t know the extent to which Jerry talks to his daughter. I know they’re on good terms now. But I had to extrapolate based on my own life and my own relationship with my parents.

Tomorrow in Part 5, Greg shares what it was like to make the 2022 Black List.

For Part 1, go here.

Part 2, here.

Part 3, here.

Greg is repped by Bellevue Productions.

Twitter and Instagram: @gregroqueislame.

Website: gregroqu.com.

For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.