Interview (Part 4): Filipe Coutinho and Ben Mehlman
My interview with 2021 Black List writers for their script Whittier.
My interview with 2021 Black List writers for their script Whittier.
Filipe Coutinho and Ben Mehlman wrote the original screenplay “Whittier” which landed on the 2021 Black List. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Filipe and Ben about their creative background, their script, the craft of screenwriting, and what making the annual Black List has meant to them.
Today in Part 4 of a 6-part series to run each day through Sunday, Filipe and Ben talk about the “buddy story” approach they took with the two lead characters in “Whittier.”
Scott: Let’s talk about Tracy, who functions in a “You used to be like me” way to Jackie. How did you develop this character?
Filipe: We didn’t want Jackie to go alone on this journey because that’s the most common trope in noirs. We’re like, “What if we take the trope of the buddy comedy or the buddy action movie, but put it in a neo-noir?”
Also, we wanted to show the other side of Jackie because we are portraying a world that is quite cynical, and while our point of view can be cynical at times, we’re hopeful people who believe in change. Tracy very much represents that. The idealism and what idealism is facing. That’s when you sort of figure out your moral fiber. It’s not when things go well, but it’s when things don’t.
Ben: The biggest tool of an oppressor is to make you believe change is impossible. Making your vote, your voice, your life feel small, when it is anything but. From a craft perspective, we think it’s important to have characters that can challenge each other.
In the beginning, we were talking about “Back to the Future” a lot, which is a dual-protagonist movie where one person’s arc informs the others. In that case it’s George McFly and Marty McFly. For us, sometimes it’s like, “Let’s take influences from movies that have nothing to do with ours and see how we can insert it in.”
Scott: Let me ask you a question because I’m curious how you structured the plot. It’s a classic. It’s in the vein of “Chinatown” where it’s this complex web that goes through all these different aspects of living in a city. You’ve got JD, ends up dead. That’s by the end of Act One.
We know that’s the small story, the personal connection that Jackie feels to this kid. That’s the case she’s going to take on. Yet, there’s this large, big thing, the money. How did you spin that out? Was it you discovered the Whittier earthquakes and all this money that was coming into town and people were ripping that off, with that way?
Did you start off with the murder? How did you structure this plot?
Ben: This type of film is usually best when you are telling a simple story in a complex way because your character doesn’t have all the pieces yet. It started with the idea of someone using Black Monday as a smokescreen to gentrify an area that was destroyed in the earthquake.
We then used that as a spine to explore themes and elements that a story like that, no pun intended, unearths. Out of that comes the ornaments and lights on the tree that makes a story like this shine. Where we discuss certain characters and archetypal story ideas like social workers working with the police, what if Jackie had a cop who was her entry point into that world. Or what if she had a love interest. For a while, we just called him “that guy.” Then we were like, “This person’s kind of a douche.” He would probably be named Guy.
Filipe: Taking a peek behind the curtain, what we did was very much build a puzzle, but we didn’t know what the final image would be. We had all these pieces like the Whittier quake, Black Monday, and other key moments. Then we built the image from there. As writers, we have the luxury of defining the edges of those puzzle pieces and fit them where we want. But we didn’t know what was going to emerge from that. It was a long process, and we spent a lot of time outlining because, as Ben said, we wanted to make this complex plot feel simple.
Scott: Was this index cards on the wall, scene by scene?
Ben: Lotta carding. We had a pretty good idea from the jump where we were going to end. Though there were elements that were surprising, which is a lot of the fun of having a co-writer because you get new pages and suddenly this story you thought you knew takes an exciting turn.
We would start with simple cards, then as we developed it more the cards got bigger and we used cards underneath the plot cards for character or world oriented notes. It’s listening to what the story tells you while also knowing what the sandbox is or the edges of the puzzle are.
I think as long as you know the boundaries of the type of story you want to tell, it’ll unfold as it’s meant to.
Scott: “Edges of the puzzle.” I love that. Both of you used that.
You made a comment earlier that reminded me of “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein, this idea that something big happens, and that’s when the powers that be can use that as a ruse to screw people over, pass legislation, take money, and all that. That clearly is in play here, given the Black Monday and the convergence with the Whittier earthquake.
Filipe: Not to be too cynical, but I think we know exactly who got rich during this pandemic, right?
Ben: Yeah.
Scott: Yes. Oh, gosh. Trillionaires.
Ben: Like I said, corruption, unfortunately, is evergreen.
Scott: Yeah, as the Bible says, the love of money is the root of all evil.
Ben: Exactly. One of the biggest things that Filipe and I realized halfway through writing one of the earlier drafts is that it’s not just about money but what money represents, which is power.
Power itself is a drug because at a certain point money literally means nothing. Does Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk need more money? No, they have a never ending lust for more power.
Scott: In a way, this is like a… probably a better sequel to “Chinatown” than “The Two Jakes.”
Ben: I guess we’ll just call it out. The character’s name is Jackie Cross. It’s like…
Scott: Oh. [laughs]
Ben: Hopefully he’s still alive and kicking, but we always said Jack Nicholson was our prototype for Sharky. Whatever the studio is, pay him a million dollars, let him do his monologue, and it’ll be great.
Scott: It’s a great monologue.
Ben: Thank you.
Tomorrow in Part 5, Ben and Filipe share their thinking why they included specific songs in their script and their appreciation for the movie (500) Days of Summer.
For Part 1 of the interview, go here.
Part 2, go here.
Part 3, go here.
Ben and Filipe are repped by Matt Rosen at Rain Management.
Twitter: @filipefcoutinho, @Ben_Mehlman
For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.