Interview (Part 4): Cameron Fay

My interview with the 2024 Black List writer for his script Until You.

Cameron Fay wrote the screenplay Until You which landed on the 2024 Black List. Recently, I had the opportunity to do a deep dive with Cameron into his filmmaking background, writing his Black List script, and his approach to the craft of screenwriting.

Today in Part 4 of a 6-part series to run each day this week, Cameron explores how the central relationship in the script emerged and evolved through the story-crafting process.

Scott: She’s going through some sort of experimental therapy that hopefully will slow the degeneration. I could see from putting my writer’s hat on how, this is crass in a way to think about it, but how convenient this particular condition is because there is a slow degenerative process that includes mobility issues, heart conditions, both of which come into play in the story.

Ironically, it’s that mobility issue, like tripping and falling and that leads to her meeting with the other key character of the story, Foster. You got two things going on there that lead to this. One is Chloe. “Let’s go out and drink. Let’s go do it.” They’re out there having a good time, and then there’s a conventional meet cute where she bashes into this guy Foster.

Here’s how he’s described after he’s fallen and is getting up. It says: “As he stands up and brushes himself off, he really takes her in for the first time, and he’s entranced. She does the same. He’s tall enough, handsome and naturally charming Jimmy Stewart, young Tom Hanks kind of way, wearing a simple outfit, not trying too hard, jeans, casual monotone sweater. This is Foster Keating.”

Did Mallory emerge first as the character in the story and then Foster, or did they emerge at the same time? Then, basically, how did Foster come into being in that specific nature of him?

Cameron: I think they essentially came to be in my brain at the same time in thinking about this character who I mean, I guess she came in slightly first in the sense that I was thinking about a character who has this disease and is trying to not only find love, as we all generally want to do, but find a partner if something were to happen.

Then I started thinking, “Well, who could that potential partner be?” That’s where Foster started coming together. My dad was not at all into visual storytelling or anything like that… I mean, he could tell a story, but he wasn’t in the film business or anything. But I remember him saying, “It’s important to name your characters in a way that’s meaningful for the story.” Mallory means someone with bad fortune, generally. You know, “Mal?”

Scott: Yeah.

Cameron: Foster obviously comes into play as someone who might take care of a child. It’s maybe too on the nose. I don’t know. I don’t think anyone will notice it, so maybe it’s hopefully not too on the nose. I like doing things like that when it makes sense.

Scott: She’s been dealing with her job and her medical condition all along. The fact she’s single and has been looking. He’s the one who gets pulled out of his…I mean, he’s like a millionaire. He sold some app or something. He’s rather a hedonist, I guess, at the beginning in some respects. Is that fair to say?

Cameron: Yeah.

Scott: In fact, you cut after him meeting her. Then there’s a post‑coital scene in his apartment where he’s next to this gorgeous woman. He then glances at her or this woman for a bit knowing nothing about her, looks around his immaculate yet sterile apartment devoid of any charm or life. You convey the sense that he’s seems like he’s got a great life, but it’s pretty empty.

Cameron: That’s also me giving a little direction to the actor and a little direction to the production designer. Again, maybe you can’t see that he doesn’t know anything about her, but a good actor can convey what needs to be conveyed there. He’s in a place that I think a lot of people would envy, but he’s not happy.

Scott: He, I want to say, pursues Mallory, but not in a stalking kind of way. He’s fascinated by her. She’s very honest. She’s also very intelligent. She’s got a keen wit about her. She’s different than the other women. I could see why he would be intrigued by her.

Over time, they develop a kinship, and she’s willing to go along with it and even see where it goes. You make a really interesting choice where you get to play with some dramatic irony.

We, your audience, know that Mallory has this medical condition. It’s not until I don’t believe in the midpoint of the story where Foster learns about that. I thought it was really smart.

It would have been so easy if you had laid in this medical condition revelation to him page 20, it would have just been hanging over everything. By him not knowing, allows you a chance for them to have this fun, frolicsome relationship emerge because he’s not weighed down by that. Is that a part of the thinking that you had by saving that revelation?

Cameron: Exactly. I think what it does is he’s having this fun, but we know there’s this impending doom on the horizon for their relationship. I think that keeps us engaged. That’s the hope at least.

With each draft, it was really finding that balance of when does the audience get the information, when does Foster get the information? I’ll tell you, I mean, I did not have it in the places that it is now in the first draft. I think it all got revealed way too late. If I remember correctly, in the first draft, we and Foster find out at the same time at the midpoint.

I remember reading through my first draft going, “What the hell is this movie about? I don’t know what the hell this movie is even about.” I’m like, “Page 50, and I don’t know. Come on.”

So then I had a thought, when she falls rollerblading, we think she’s going to the doctor for her knee. She fell. She hurt her knee, but she’s actually going to a different type of doctor. It’s for Friedreich’s Ataxia.

That felt like a natural way to let the audience in on this thing that she’s been struggling with, which will then make them go, “Oh, the date with Paul makes sense now. OK. This is falling into place.”

Scott: Right.

Cameron: Then, we still have a half of an act to follow this courtship and their love growing with him not knowing. There are few moments where she almost tells him and is debating telling him, but doesn’t.

Scott: It makes a lot of sense. That could play out as emotional subtext even though they’re skydiving, and they’re doing all this stuff. The courtship is like you’re talking about. It’s still there. The audience knows.

Cameron: Exactly.

Scott: She knows. He doesn’t know.

Cameron: It’s so fun to do that. I think with anything you’re writing, and you can’t do it forever, but I think giving the audience a piece of information that a lead character doesn’t know, it just makes people sit forward in their seats, I think. Even if for just a few scenes. Something.

Scott: I think you’re exactly right. At some point, the audience, they’ll get frustrated. Like, “Come on, man. You should know this.”

Cameron: Exactly. It’s a balancing act. You got to find the moment to let them know.

Scott: It’s like a love story with three different story lines. You got Mallory and Foster. You’ve got Mallory and Zachary, and then you got Foster and Zachary. I’m just curious how you handled it. Did you spend time individually with each storyline tracking the beginning, middle, and end, or did you just organically feel your way through the process of how these three storylines play out?

Cameron: I outlined it, but I don’t outline in too much detail. I know the main goalposts and the maybe a sentence or two with what this scene could be. Then, usually, by in the early part of writing the second act, I’ve abandoned the outline.

At the end of each day of writing, I’ll write what I think the next three or so scenes could be, based on what I just wrote. Then I’ll pick it up from there the next day.

Then, after I have a solid draft, not a perfect draft, but something where I’m like, “OK,” because, and I’ll be honest, the first draft of this, I was like, “Oh, this is a punt. I’m going to throw this away. This is horrible. I hate it. I can’t.” I remember telling my wife, I was like, “I don’t know what the hell I’m writing. This is a disaster. I’m going to scratch it and start on something else.” She was like, “You’re being hard on yourself. Just finish it and let me read it.” I got to a point where I was like, “OK. I can show it to someone, only my wife.”

She was encouraging as she usually is. She got me basically to the next draft. I usually have a system of, I start with the kindest people, [laughs] and I work my way to the harshest people. My wife is always the first and then my college roommate who I went to film school with. He’s pretty nice. Then it gets harder and harder and harder.

By the end, I’m giving it to people that I know are going to try to tear it down. By a certain point, I had something solid. I would do a pass with just a certain character in mind. I tend to do that with the lead characters at least.

Sometimes, it’s supporting too. I just go, “OK. What is the movie through their eyes only?” “Is everything more or less tracking?” “Is their perspective interesting and making sense?” I do it as if I’m the actor playing each role.

Tomorrow in Part 5, Cameron reveals what it has been like to be a two-time Black List writer.

For Part 1 of the interview, go here.

Part 2, here.

Part 3, here.

Cameron is repped by Paradigm and Kaplan/Perrone Entertainment.

For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.