Interview (Part 3): Jack Waz

My interview with the 2024 Black List writer for his script Decoys.

Jack Waz wrote the screenplay Decoys which landed on the 2024 Black List. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Jack about his creative background, writing multiple Black List scripts, and his approach to the craft of screenwriting.

Today in Part 3 of a 6-part series to run each day this week, Jack talks about the story’s key characters, how his plot involving “broligarchs” eerily foreshadowed current politics, and the “whammo theory” of writing action movies.

Scott: The script starts with this big action sequence, the scene where you meet these two leads, Griff and Mac. You think, of course, that they are these big badass CIA guys. Could you describe these two, because they’re very similar, but they each have their own distinctive thing going on.

Jack: I’ll start with Mac. One of my favorite types of characters to write is just really stupid. It’s such a fun comedy archetype that you can have a really stupid person say really smart things, and it makes the joke that much better. Throughout the movie, Mac is actually very cunning and very witty, but he says it with a big dopey grin on his face.

It makes it that much more rewarding to have the character who you’ve written off be like, oh, no, this guy’s actually making some good points. Then Griff is a little bit more of the protagonist. He is the character that I put a lot of myself into. I think I’m narcissistic in that every main character that I write is dealing with a problem that I am having.

For example, in Worst. Dinner. Ever, it was about some issues I’ve had with family. In Baby Boom, it’s about whether or not I wanted to be a father. In Fistmas, it was about, what am I going to do during the holidays. What would I do to get a sense of normalcy back? Then with DECOYS! It was a sense of imposter syndrome. It was conceived during the strike.

It was written after the strike when all of us were trying to figure out, oh God, what are we really doing here? What are we doing next? I’d had a bit of success, but I kept thinking, is this it? Am I good at this? Am I capable of writing like this? All that anxiety channeled into Griff. He’s on the surface braggadocious, but inside, he’s someone who generally doesn’t know if he can believe in himself.

What he learns from the movie is he is capable, and he is good enough. To go with the Barbie thing from last year, he is enough. He is someone who his anxiety and his insecurity drive a lot of his motivation drive the story. It’s only when he is able to conquer his insecurity that he’s able to stand up and be a hero.

Scott: It’s funny because the script has got a retro feel, the characters are reminiscent of Schwarzenegger, Stallone, “Action Jackson,” and yet it’s very contemporary too. The politics of it is extremely contemporary. There are points where I’m like, oh my God, literally what we’re going through right now with the oligarchs.

Jack: I wrote this nine months ago. [laughs]

Scott: I know. God. Dude, you should go to Las Vegas.

Jack: Trigger. My finger on the pulse of it.

Scott: Talk about that bad guy plot, and when people read this, they’re going, oh my god, this is so relevant.

Jack: The bad guy’s plot, the genesis of that was, I’m a devoted listener of “Marketplace,” the Kai Ryssdal NPR show. At one point, I can remember it was on the Marketplace or on his spinoff podcast, “Make Me Smart,” they were talking about the financial crisis a few years ago and about when Congress was threatening not to raise the debt limit.

They mentioned the coin and the theory of the coin, like, this is weird. Then they did the story about how they have to mint this coin in West Point and fly to the Federal Reserve. I’m like, wait, there’s literally a trillion dollars worth of wealth that could be created, put into a MacGuffin, and transported from point a to point b? What’s the heist? Who are the people that are trying to steal that?

It always felt like such a fun device, such a fun type of heist you haven’t really seen before. That led to, who are the characters that would try to get basically the sum total of human money, which led to this tech bro villain, Theo Wolf. I’m like, oh, yeah, of course, it’s the guys already on top who want to do everything they can to stay there.

I was talking about the insecurity of Griff, Theo has the exact same insecurities as Griff. He’s someone who also feels imposter syndrome, but his way of dealing with it, rather than changing himself, becoming a better person, is to double down on everything that’s gotten to the place that he is, and just lean into the evil of it.

I did not know when I wrote this in March that we would be in the climate we’re in where the “broligarchs” are doing everything they can to maybe take The US economy and become kings.

Scott: I think at some point, Theo mentions Peter Thiel, then there’s some reference to Elon Musk. I’m watching the inauguration, there are these guys. Maybe you should become a political adviser or something.

Jack: It’s not a bad idea. Nine months ago, I’m like, who seem to be villains? These guys. Wouldn’t you know it, the bet the bet paid off.

Scott: You mentioned this thing I thought that was interesting, that at some point, somewhere along the line, someone said to you that your humor you’re writing mostly cynical, but bring the heart into it. It’s all scalable.

This is not obviously a two-hander psychological drama, but Griff’s got his background where his parents abandoned him. That’s a significant thing. It’s certainly enough to build a psychological arc for this guy.

Jack: Yeah. That is a theme that I tend to return to is, what is it? How does someone who has a difficult past like that overcome it? That was a big part of my script Worst. Dinner. Ever, and there’s shades of it in Baby Boom. It’s also subtly in the background of Fistmas. Someone who doesn’t have a family that they can immediately call up and rely on, how do they deal with this kind of world?

Scott: Let’s talk about Jonah because he’s the third leg of this this triumvirate that takes on the bad guys. What’s his deal?

Jack: Jonah is just such a fun dipshit to write, just the most smackable dude in human existence. That’s why he’s been such a fun foil, I think, to the two guys, is that he is the straight man. Everything he’s doing is correct. He’s the guy who’s actually good at his job, and yet he would hate him because he’s the one standing in the way of our guys having as much fun as possible.

It’s that ’80s archetype. I’m trying to think of, like, trying to think of an exact reference to it. It’s the guy who’s so perfect that you want to root against him, but as we go through the script, we learn that he is just as flawed as they are. He’s the one who’s geeking out over PO. I’m proud of the line, “Don’t you guys ever read LinkedIn?” which seems like the most douchebag thing a guy can say.

[laughter]

Scott: He becomes the conduit, the guy with the earpiece who’s helping to guide them, the guy who knows about the weapons and all that stuff.

Jack: It’s a fun reversal of, yeah, how do you take the guy who should be doing all the cool stuff, make him the guy in the chair. It’s fun to have that foil playoff of, especially. He’s, in a way, a mentor figure who genuinely does not like either of his mentees, and yet in order to do something that’s of greater good, guide them through this process.

Scott: Jumping well ahead in the script, at a key point, there’s a big soiree at one of those rich guys type getaway things. Jonah no longer has the earpiece, and so Griff has got to learn how to do this on his own, like you were just saying. He finds that he does have the capability of doing that. That was a smart choice and pulling Jonah out of that key part of the of the story.

Jack: Thank you. One thing I always return to in everything I write is, why are the protagonists in this movie the absolute worst people to be in this situation? That’s something that I find really helps with figuring out the conflicts and figuring out momentum of the movie. For DECOYS! These guys, they are the worst people to be in this situation if they have to figure it out.

In Baby Boom, it is two knuckleheads struggling 30-somethings who have to save the world at a gender reveal party. In Worst. Dinner. Ever, it’s a father and son who don’t get along, who all of a sudden have to play “Die Hard.” It’s just, what is it about these people that makes them functionally unable to complete this task, and how do they complete it anyway? Because that just feels so good.

Scott: Yeah, underdogs. We love underdog stories. As I’m reading your script, I was reminded when Larry Gordon, who produced “Die Hard,” “Predator,” 48 Hrs.,” and my movie “K-9,” he told me about the “whammo theory.” That in an action movie, every ten minutes, something has got to go “whammo.” Are you familiar with that theory?

Jack: I don’t know that theory, but unconsciously, I think that has absolutely influenced my work. Now that I think about it, the reason I wrote this way is because I was trying to nail the rhythms of a movie like this, of a “Fast and Furious,” of a “Mission: Impossible,” of a big, crazy, ’80s style action movie. That’s exactly right, it’s just you’re moving from set piece to set piece. It’s all about, how do you create good enough connective tissue to reward the set pieces?

There’s some interesting, fun, quiet moments, but I found that it’s even more fun to do those quiet moments in the middle or at the end of a giant set piece. I love the moment at the end of this, Mac pulling Griff up after he’s killed the bad guy by unzipping his cargo pants. They just have a very sweet moment where there’s like, I love you, man. I love you too.

You’ve been waiting the entire movie for these guys to basically accept themselves and accept each other, and they do it while covered in bad guy juice.

Tomorrow in Part 4, Jack talks about his approach to writing action sequences, his affection for Shane Black’s writing style, and his disdain for the so-called “unfilmable” screenwriting rule.

For Part 1, go here.

Part 2, here.

Jack is repped by UTA and Fourth Wall.

For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.