Interview (Part 3): Brian Arnold

My interview with 2021 Black List writer for his script In the End.

Brian Arnold wrote the original screenplay “In the End” which landed on the 2021 Black List. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Brian about his creative background, his script, the craft of screenwriting, and what making the annual Black List has meant to him.

Today in Part 3 of a 6 part series to run each day through Saturday, Brian discusses some of the key characters in his Black List script.

Scott: Your story has got a cast of interesting characters including Gale. Let’s talk about her. I grabbed a few sides just to give people a sense of this, sort of her Greatest Hits.

She says, talking about her life, “I saw a lot of shit, did a lot of shit, ran with the bulls, swam with the sharks, marched with penguins. I decided a long time ago to ride this thing till the wheels came off, which they eventually did, and I think I did a damn good job of it.”

That kind of gives you the spirit right there. Another line she has — she’s gettin’ into her car, a Mustang. “Just because I’m old, half blind, and prone to fits of violent rage doesn’t mean I can’t drive my own fucking car.”

Then the final one. They’re about to smoke some pot. She says, “Don’t worry. It’s not medicinal. I bought it off a guy who lives behind my building. I don’t know what it’s laced with, but whatever it is, I like it.”

Brian: Yeah. [laughs]

Scott: Where did Gale come from?

Brian: There are definitely elements of an amplified version of my own grandmother, who liked to make a lot of those off-color jokes, not to this degree. She wasn’t a big pothead or anything. Unfortunately. I think it would have mellowed her out.

It’s definitely a heightened version, but there would be times when my cousin and I were staying with her. And we were like, ”Hey, Nana, just come out to the bar with us. Let’s have fun tonight.”

She’d say, “Oh, no, no, no. Get out of here. As soon as you’re gone, I’m going to have an orgy.” She would always joke around like that, and I wanted to bring her energy to the character a little bit.

And, I think the script wears some of its influences on its sleeves. I always wanted to take that energy and write something that I sometimes describe as “What if ‘Harold and Maude’ was a ‘Black Mirror’ episode.”

Scott: I love that movie. You got the songs layered through there. I kept waiting. When’s the Cat Stevens song?

[laughter]

Scott: Your story can be seen to be an homage to “Harold and Maude.” You’ve got the older woman and the younger guy. Both of the younger people in the stories are connected to death. About Gale, she may talk a lot of shit, but she’s a mentor figure, isn’t she? She helps guide him to forge a path out of his current existence.

Brian: I think so, yes. We have a guy who’s very much focused on his job, building these experiences for people who have these regrets of things they haven’t done, and this woman who seems like she’s done everything you can do in life. What could she possibly regret? She’s done so many things that Peter wishes he could do with his life. These grand adventures.

But, she’s also this lonely woman counting down to the end of her life. And, she’s seeing in Peter a reflection of her own regrets. That he’s also lonely and needs to learn to let other people in and share his life, before it’s too late.

He sets off to help her on her journey to the end of her life, but he’s also learning through that experience what’s missing from his own.

Scott: He not only writes these things, he directs them and then inserts himself into these VR experiences. Imagine any of us could come up with whatever our final narrative could be. He’s participating in these things. World War II aerial battles, Broadway shows, and science fiction sagas.

The irony is that he’s living out these fantastical experiences in a virtual way, but himself, not living much of a life. He’s never even been outside of New Orleans, so he’s living a pretty isolated life.

Brian: Yes, absolutely. That’s the thing that I think about for myself. A lot of writers probably also struggle with. At least I hope I’m not the only one. Being so involved in your career, your projects, and managing different things that you realize you’re not taking enough time for yourself to live a full life.

That’s something that I think about and struggle with. A lot of that came out in Peter.

Scott: Let’s talk about another character who plays a prominent role in Peter’s psychological and physical journey. That’s Merrily, M-E-R-R-I-L-Y. She’s the daughter of one of Peter’s customers, who he leads through a departure. How would you describe Merrily’s character?

Brian: She’s definitely having a hard time. Like you said, her father has just passed away and chose to do that through this service. She didn’t totally understand the decision, didn’t support it. She’s coming into the movie and doesn’t trust Peter, doesn’t like what he does.

She grows to see how genuine he is and how much he really worked to give her dad this perfect last moment. She starts to see him as a human being.

Merrily also definitely represents hope, I think. A lot of people in this movie are resigned to, “Well, the world’s shit now. The world’s been shit for a while, and it’s going to continue to get shittier.” She’s one of the few people in his life who’s like, “No. We can still find good things. We can still make things better.”

Peter’s life is dealing completely with hopeless cases and death, so somebody who still believes in some sort of future is a breath of fresh air to be introduced into his life.

Scott: She’s an environmental lawyer who worked in California, then returns home when her dad was in failing health. In fact, there’s a scene where she and Peter go out on a date, where they’re cleaning up trash on the beach. That reflects the fact she’s fundamentally hopeful. In a way, it’s like you’ve got these countervailing female presences in the life of the Protagonist.

You’ve got this mentor figure, Gale, who’s been around and done everything, a rather caustic view of life. Then you’ve got what I would call an Attractor character. This is one who’s more involved with Peter’s emotional life because they actually do become emotionally connected.

Merrily says to him at a key point later on, “You have to stop using your job as an excuse because you’re so afraid of anything real,” which really speaks to that — I love that dichotomy that we were talking about earlier.

Brian: Yeah, I think one of the things I kind of realized early on when I was writing this was structurally, it’s, like you mentioned — Gale’s this mentor figure who helps Peter grow. He needs to grow in order to become somebody who can let himself love someone else.

A movie that I studied a little bit when I was writing that dynamic was a “Good Will Hunting,” just in terms of —

Scott: Skylar.

Brian: Yeah, exactly. The main A story is this mentor-mentee relationship, and that story needs to be there to make the B love story work.

In a lot of ways, Merrily represents for Peter hope for the future. Maybe you can love. Maybe you can let yourself not be so completely absorbed in your work, and maybe to take some time and see the world. Spend time with another person. You don’t have to torture yourself to do what you do.

Scott: And interestingly enough, her name, Merrily, comes from a song that her dad would sing. That’s a contrast to Grimsby. Merrily, Grimsby — that sort of hopefulness.

You made some interesting screenwriting choices. The conventional wisdom is you’ve got the Protagonist and the Nemesis, the Good Guys and the Bad Guys. There is a Nemesis in your story, Susan Ross character who runs this protest outfit that thinks what the Ascensions outfit is about is sinful. She’s in very few scenes and doesn’t really come much into play until Act III.

Was that a conscious thing, minimizing the role of the Nemesis?

Brian: I wouldn’t say I was going against conventional wisdom. I have nothing against a good antagonist. To me, biggest antagonist in this script is more of an internal thing.

These characters who are, even though they’re kind of working together and coming together, they are breaking down each other’s walls and blocks and are sort of each other’s antagonists a little bit throughout. It’s mostly this internal battle that these characters are having. Stagnate or grow.

Tomorrow in Part 4, Brian and I discuss how he used a technique I call “baton-passing” to create a rotating series of Nemesis figures in the script, plus, several choices he made which go against conventional screenwriting wisdom.

For Part 1 of the interview, go here.

Part 2, go here.

Brian is repped by:

John Zaozirny & Kate Sharp (Bellevue)
Sheryl Petersen, Adam Perry, & Halle Mariner (APA)

Twitter and Instagram: @briantarnold.

For my interviews with dozens of other Black List writers, go here.