Go Into The Story Interview: Kayla Sun

My interview with the 2023 Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winner.

Kayla Sun wrote the original screenplay “Boy, Girl, Fig” which won a 2023 Nicholl Fellowship in Screenwriting. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Kayla about her creative background, her award-winning script, the craft of screenwriting, and what winning the Nicholl Award has meant to her.

Here is my complete interview with Kayla.

Scott Myers: Let’s start at the beginning. Where did you grow up?

Kayla Sun: I grew up in Nanjing in China. I lived there for the first 18 years of my life.

Scott: Were you interested in writing at that point or was that later on?

Kayla: Yeah, I have wanted to be a writer ever since I can remember. Even as a child, I was writing novels just on papers. I struggled between whether I wanted to write novels, or do film, or draw manga, for a very long time, but I decided to go for film first.

Scott: So you liked movies?

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: Do you remember some of the more memorable movies from your youth like things that stuck with you?

Kayla: Yeah, movies that have just astounding imagination, really stuck with me, like Spirited Away and Tim Burton’s Big Fish.

Scott: Yeah. Actually, for my blog, I featured Big Fish today.

Kayla: I saw that. I was going to read it.

Scott: You got a BA in art and economics at Vanderbilt. Had you relocated to the United States at this point or how did that work?

Kayla: I went to Vanderbilt for undergrad. I studied art and economics because at that point I still was making the decision what to pursue.

Scott: One creative and one maybe more practical?

Kayla: Yeah, but I also found economics to be interesting because I didn’t have knowledge of how money works.

Scott: Yeah, well, most screenwriters I know don’t.

[laughter]

Scott: Then you got the MFA program at the Film and TV Production at USC. Did you go directly from Vanderbilt to USC?

Kayla: No. After I graduated from Vanderbilt, I worked in New York, in a gallery in Chelsea because I also loved art. I made paintings and sculptures myself as well. I knew I wouldn’t stay long because I felt like I belonged with storytelling, but I wanted to see that part of the world because I spent so much time learning the craft of art.

I also worked a little bit in China for a film production company before my Master program started.

Scott: It says you were the Jeffery Jones Scholar in Writing. That sounds like a very special award.

Kayla: Oh yeah, that was a scholarship at USC. I just really enjoyed writing. I applied and they were wonderful and gave me the scholarship.

Scott: There’s a short film that you did that has gotten quite a few accolades. 2022, a film called “The Code of Family” that won the New York Women in Film award, right?

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: Best female director in narrative short and four other awards and it’s currently screening so could you give us the background on this film? The Code of Family?

Kayla: The story is about an Asian grandma trying to learn computer science behind her family’s back. A few years ago, I learned about this grant, the Alfred P. Sloan Grant that would give you somewhere between $10,000 to $25,000 to make a short film that’s related to science or scientists. I really wanted to tell this story and applied and was lucky that I got the grant.

I was very close to my grandparents growing up, but I remember when we started to use smartphones and laptops, the elderly, they felt like they didn’t belong in that world and they were very ashamed to ask for things like a smartphone.

So they kept those wishes to themselves, and we only found out by chance and finally bought my grandparents smartphones, but the experience affected me a lot. The older generation also wanted to learn new technology but sometimes people don’t give them the opportunity to. People ignore the fact that you can learn new things no matter how old you are.

I read about this Japanese programmer. She was already in her 80s and she never touched a smartphone or laptop until she was 60 years old. And she taught herself how to code and then became a phone app designer. That was really inspiring to me and I decided to create this short story inspired by her. The characters are based on my own family.

Scott: Wow, that’s wonderful. You previously directed some short films.

Kayla: Yes.

Scott: Is that your goal: writer director?

Kayla: I would say writing comes first.

Scott: Speaking of writing, you have written a truly wonderful script: “Boy, Girl, Fig.” This is the script which won the 2023 Nicholl. Here’s the logline:

“Aden was born with a rare condition where he becomes invisible to people who love him. He struggles when he falls in love with his childhood best friend.”

What was the inspiration for this story?

Kayla: I just had it in my head. There’s no real inspiration for this. I had a lot of weird characters in my head, and this one I really liked and thought that he deserved a love story for himself.

Scott: So it started with Aden?

Kayla: Yeah, with this condition. It was actually the girl who was invisible to the people who loved her first. But after I wrote the first draft, I thought it wasn’t fun enough, so I switched the gender, and that became the screenplay now.

Scott: And was that the character, named Velare, right?

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: That’s interesting. It wasn’t fun enough and so you switched the genders. You’ve got these two, they both have these unusual conditions. One is this invisibility, but the girl, Velare, as it turns out, can see into the people’s future, specifically their death. Where did that idea come from? Was that floating around as well when you were cooking this into your imagination?

Kayla: Sort of. The reason I thought about these characters, for Velare, it’s because I sometimes see into the future and if I see something possibly ends badly, I would refuse to start, especially with relationships. I think she represents that fear.

Aden has a similar thing, he represents people who, when they are loved, they want to hide and push away.

Scott: You say on page one: SUPERIMPOSE: A FAIRY TALE. Could unpack that for us.

Kayla: I had the story for a while. I drew a manga version of it. I wrote a script. Right now I’m writing the novel version of it. I think for some time I was trying to find a reference, like a comp for this story, and I couldn’t really find anything.

And at some point I realized that my story and the structure was more like fairy tales that I read when I was a little kid. So I thought, OK, yeah, actually it is a fairy tale to me. It’s a modern day fairy tale.

Scott: Yeah. It’s even reflected in character names. Eleven and October, Mr. Eleven, Mrs. June, Mr. Nine, Mrs. First…

Kayla: Yeah, they’re all numbers and months and weekdays.

Scott: This is how you introduce Aden in the story. This is from the script:

“Aden, 7, Asian, sitting astride a tree branch, his soulful almond-shaped eyes staring wistfully at the other kids walking away. He seems curious but reserved, the kind of boy who believes every fairy tale you tell him.”

Could you describe this little boy, Aden, beyond just the fact that he has this condition where people, they’re close to him, he’s invisible. Beyond that, maybe give us a little bit more of an understanding of who this boy is.

Kayla: Aden is naturally very curious and very outgoing. He loves human beings and wants to interact with others. He finds energy by interacting with people. But because he was born with this condition and his parents kept warning him as he was growing up, don’t get close to people, they will treat you like a weirdo. That suppressed the outgoing nature of him.

Scott: And he’s got this precocious knowledge, these bits of insight, like right off the bat on page four, he’s saying, “but my point is fig does have flowers. I read it in a book yesterday. Their flowers just grow inward, there’re the sticky things you see when you cut a fig open. Isn’t that interesting? Do they teach that in school?”

Because he’s homeschooled at this point, I thought that was interesting. I don’t know if you were intentional about it, but Joseph Campbell talks about the hero’s journey being an inner journey, and that in some respects I was anticipating, well, that’s what this story is going to be. They’re going to find the metaphorical flower inside. Was that intentional on your part?

Kayla: Yes.

Scott: It was a lovely, lovely image.

Kayla: Thank you.

Scott: And then let’s talk about Velare. This is how she’s described and introduced in the script. This is Velare, 7, Asian, detached and reticent. Her hair cut short haphazardly, an intense mixture of childishness and insensitivity.

Again, going beyond her special condition where she can, when she touches someone see into the future, in particular the way they die, she’s a quite different personality than Aden. Could you maybe describe a little bit more about her character?

Kayla: Yeah, Velare is insensitive in nature already. She likes to find meaning in things. She’s very introverted. She wants to see into the future and she wouldn’t do something if she thinks it is pointless. And at a young age, she believed that she wished these people dead. That enhanced the insensitive side of her. Made her feel like, I don’t care about people and it’s better that way because they’re going to die anyways. That created this very sociopath personality of her so she… she does feel things and she does care but it’s just she doesn’t know that she cares.

Scott: Yeah, she bottles it up. She’s defensive in that respect. And interestingly enough, that’s a similar dynamic to Aden’s parents who are trying to keep Aden safe because of the irony that if he gets close to someone, then he starts to disappear.

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: And so there is a similar dynamic there. The first nine pages of the script are so compelling. You employ an interesting cinematic device. You’re showing Aden at home with his family, concurrent with Velare at home with her family. These cross cuts, this rising tension towards something.

In fact, Velare’s parents are dead. When she’s taken away by social services, there’s that last little moment with Aden where she says, “Don’t ever let me see you again.” Did you always have that beginning in mind, where it’s this very dramatic end point of that opening sequence?

Kayla: Yeah, I always saw that. No matter what kind of note I got, I couldn’t move the beginning away from that.

Scott: It’s very cinematic. You may see yourself you’re a writer first and director next, but you got the director chops, it seems to me.

Another interesting narrative choice you made: At first, you tell the story from the perspective of Aden. Title card: PART ONE: BOY. Later, Title card: PART TWO: GIRL.

So you pivot, you literally shift the point of view. Was that always something you had in mind?

Kayla: Yeah. With this version of the story I knew I wanted to switch the perspective in the middle. It was a hard decision because early on, I often get feedback that once they get to the girl’s perspective, they already knew some of the things that they would go through. But I just insisted.

Scott: Well, those people evidently haven’t seen Rashomon.”

[laughter]

Because this is a wonderful use of that similar thing. I mentioned that line: “Don’t ever let me see you again.” In this second appearance, a callback, the line takes on a whole different other meaning. You realize that later on, from her perspective, she thinks that Aden is an imaginary friend. That’s how she’s been treating him all along. Was that a thing that you had in mind or was that early on or did that evolve in your writing?

Kayla: No, that also was something I knew early on because it only made sense that way. Because when Velare was a kid and she saw this boy who’s like a little transparent, of course she was going to think that.

Scott: You think he’s invisible, like an imaginary friend? It was such a great twist. I was like, “Oh, yeah, that makes so much sense.”

Let’s talk about the invisibility. Aden becomes invisible when people care about him. But the way you handle it, it’s not just black and white invisible. It’s like, 75 percent or 40 percent or 30 percent. You also switch it. Sometimes the invisible is from Aden’s POV and then sometimes from other people’s. I bet that was a little challenging for you to try and figure out how to handle those invisible moments and stages.

Kayla: Yeah, actually because I think a lot of people will have questions like how does this work? I made up the rule that anything that relies the gravity on Aden will disappear with him and when people start to care about him they will start to see him fading. When you love Aden, then you can’t see him at all.

So, there’s progress. I had a writer’s group when I was working on the script, and through a conversation they had about the rules of invisibility, they were saying just like, play around with it, like play with some objects. That’s when I saw the balloon behind his head and thought that would be funny.

Scott: That was great because that’s one of those things you set up these little mysteries. I mean, he’s walking around, he’s got a balloon attached to his collar, and then you go home and you see the whole reason behind it. It’s his grandfather who handed the balloons to him and the family realized that they could see the floating balloons even when they couldn’t see him.

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: What about the use of voiceover narration? Because both Aden and Velare use voiceover narration.

Kayla: Yeah, that’s how I imagine it. It’s more fun for them to tell their perspective because even though their condition might seem really dreadful to us, when they tell it, they’re already used to it. So they can tell it in a more lighthearted tone. I imagine when Aden was telling, the voiceover was in his childhood voice, but when Velare tells it, it’s the adult Velare.

Scott: You do some time shifting there. In fact, when Aden, I think he’s 18, if I’m not mistaken, and that’s when he gets that job at the private detectives?

Kayla: Yeah, around that time.

Scott: And so you set that up. He liked that book, a detective book. But because his parents have said, you need to stay away from people, homeschooled at some point.

He’s an observer. He watches, even in the way you describe it, and that would be something that I think a private detective would feel that they would need. So maybe talk a little bit about this private detective thing. How did that evolve in your story-crafting process?

Kayla: I was a huge detective story fan growing up. I probably read thousands of detective stories. When I was imagining what they did for a career, how their lives intertwined when they were adults, that was the first job that I considered and it really worked for him just thinking about him following people, investigating. That is something that he was taught to do.

Scott: It works out great. He couldn’t be a banker. He thought about that. He couldn’t work at a grocery store. But this not only is a job that he could do, and this wonderful middle aged woman, private detective October, who’s a delightful figure, that works out really well for him because not only does he have a job, but then you set up this really cool mystery.

It’s like a rash of missing items, each of them mundane, unnoticed until they go missing. How did that mystery evolve?

Kayla: I was just imagining what could be the most ridiculous case that they were going to investigate. And then I started having this idea of people having their objects of sentimental value getting stolen, like nothing of monetary value. And I thought that was something worth looking at, especially because I felt like it fits the theme of my story.

Scott: You just had that idea. You didn’t have in mind Velare’s involvement in it at that point, right?

Kayla: Yeah, I didn’t know that until later.

Scott: And so then you didn’t have her explanation for why she was doing that which also is quite evocative and meaningful. That evolved in the writing?

Kayla: Yeah, that only came together while I was writing it.

Scott: We mentioned earlier she says, “I don’t ever want to see you again,” and they split apart. Now we’re several years later and as part of his investigation he ends up in this…it’s like a psychic type of a place and a funny little bit of business where he’s in a closet and the door opens and, who is it, Velare, fate intervening, right?

Kayla: That specific scene of how they met as adults was put together later. When I was designing the story, I only knew that when they meet as adults, they should meet in a weird position where Velare still sees the transparent him, but the situation should make sense for her to freak out.

I eventually put him in a closet because she’s allowed to act surprised and angry and shut the closet door on him. The real reason she was so surprised was seeing this transparent person.

Scott: Yeah, because she thought he was an imaginary friend, right? And then when she sees him, she is stunned. She closes the door, locks him in there.

Obviously, he’s still smitten with her, and they do have an interesting interrelationship in those pages where they’re adults. He even does psychic sessions with her as his way of asking questions to her. That’s a really nice framing device.

Kayla: That emerged when I was writing because I imagined Aden knowing that she works at a psychic shop, but because Aden was told to keep away from people, he doesn’t know how to ask a girl out. He doesn’t know how to interact with people properly. So it was the only way he knew how, just pay money and get this session with her.

Scott: At the end of it, it’s sort of heartbreaking too, because she says, “You’re a good person, Aden, but you don’t belong with me.” There’s a kind of a parallel.

She’s basically saying, like she did before, “I don’t ever want to see you again.” And here she’s saying, “you’re a good person, but you don’t belong with me.” And then it says in the scene description: “Close on her face as tears start to form in her eyes.”

That’s a much different feeling than when she says, “I don’t want to see you again.”

Kayla: I knew that in the timeline, by that point, she would have seen a better future for him that’s without her. So she decides to let him go. But because the first half was told from Aden’s perspective, I knew that would be the great midpoint to switch to her because he cannot solve the mystery of why he thought everything was going great, why she just wants to leave again.

Scott: Right. And that is literally, it’s like page 50.

Kayla: Yeah, right.

Scott: Right at the middle of the story. So yet again what you do so well in the script you set up something that creates a mystery because you’re not going to give us the answer until you pivot. You now do this little bit of Rashomon business where we’re seeing the story through Velare’s eyes and we see how her relationship with her mother and father is.

We experience the death, their deaths through her perspective, because we didn’t see that before. It was from Aden’s perspective. We now begin to see, for example, she’s got this habit of dashing into traffic blindly, and that’s because she’s seen her own future and she says, “well, I’m not going to die that way.” So she doesn’t need to worry about that. That must have been satisfying. I don’t know. When I write, when I do a setup and payoff, it’s a really satisfying feeling. I imagine that must be a satisfying feeling for you, too.

Kayla: Yeah, I love plants and payoffs. My friends say my writing is too clever. I should dial it down a bit.

Scott: Well, I disagree with that entirely. For example, there’s a moment of revelation here on page 69, where when she intersects with Aden, she says, “it’s incredible how this escaped me before. He’s not imaginary after all.” And so, realizing that he’s a real person. Then they have a nice relationship going on, and you have this moment where she says to him, we’re not going to end up together, and there’s another wonderful little bit of business there. He’s supposed to, in this future, fall in love with a blind woman, which is like, oh yes, of course, that would be perfect.

Kayla: That had been the actual ending of the story for a couple of years before I switched to this version. When I first designed their love story, I saw Aden end up with this blind woman. They were perfect for each other. So it was a sad ending before, and it wasn’t a fairy tale back then. I changed it because I realized if that’s the ending, then he didn’t really change. There’s no actual character arc. I think everyone who read my earlier drafts wanted them to get together. So I reconsidered. But it was difficult to let that go because that would have been perfect for him. But I think he needed to grow up from wanting the perfect thing.

Scott: Velare really sells it. I mean, when you went on 86, she says:

“Listen to me, Aden. In a few years, you’re going to meet a beautiful blind girl. Her name is Gilly Lamorne. She’s our age. Kind, optimistic, a talented violinist and best of all, she can’t see anybody. You will be normal to her all the time. It’s what you’ve always wanted, right? You will give your purple stone to her. It will mean that you are finally done trying to avoid love. She is perfect for you.”

You really sell it in the script. We even see a visual of that moment. We think that is going to be the ending. And you’re saying that originally it was the ending. Is that right?

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: And so that does make sense. I mean, that is like the perfect ending for him. And it is a tragedy in a way because of the relationship that we feel has developed between Aden and Velare. But then people in your writers group are saying, “We want them to be together.”

Kayla: Yeah, everyone who read it wanted them to be together.

Scott: So what you’ve done is this classic Hollywood ending where they say, give the audience what they expect, which is the down ending. But then give them what they want which is exactly what you do in the story here because we were, “He’s going to end up with this blind girl,” but then he’s with the Velare and they have a moment, I don’t want to quite give it away, but they do end up together.

It’s really quite lovely. What was that like for you to make that change? When you wrote that ending, that new ending, did that settle with you? Did that feel good? Did that resonate with you after having given up that other ending?

Kayla: I actually think that was much better because I realized that I was putting off writing the script before, because it ended almost like a tragedy. But I personally like to have more optimism. I like to live with hope. So when I finally made a decision that they’re just going to end up together, that this is a real fairy tale, I was very satisfied and I thought it made sense for their characters to overcome the things that they were always afraid of.

Scott: Yeah, right. That goes back to the character arc. Because he literally rejects, “I don’t want perfect,” he says at one point. And he does something very dramatic with the purple stone. And there’s a wonderful little visual here:

“Aden raises her higher. The passers-by chuckle at the sight of a boy lifting a girl up. They look like any other ordinary couple. But in Velare’s POV, she is flying in the air. The height of being raised up and the swift speed of the spin completely bring Velare into a childish state. She laughs for the first time like everyone else does.”

It’s really a lovely… lyrical.

Kayla: Thank you. Yeah, I first had it end in a conversation, but then I thought that lacked impact. So I looked at the last scene, I thought, what image can I end on? And I thought, OK, when he holds her up and she thinks she’s flying in the air, that is a perfect moment to end for them.

Scott: Yeah, visual storytelling. Your director’s sensibility.

[laughter]

I was so impressed that you had a lot of storylines going on. How did you organize all that? Are you the kind of person that uses index cards or whiteboards?

Kayla: When I sat down to write it, I was already pretty sure of what was going to happen, so I didn’t really need to organize those. I knew what the next scene was going to be when I was writing because I had thought about the story for a long time.

Scott: Do you use cards at all or how do you outline? How do you approach prep writing?

Kayla: I don’t do a strict outline. I just have documents where I write down my thoughts sometimes. And at some point I would know, OK, the story is ready to actually be written in the script format.

Scott: So a lot of internal writing?

Kayla: Mostly internal.

Scott: OK. Lovely script, really just wonderfully written, and very evocative. It’s like right in my wheelhouse, I hope somebody makes this thing. What is the status of the script at this point?

Kayla: We do have a production company now. They’re actively trying to develop this. So if we’re lucky, we will get to make this film.

Scott: OK. Well, I’m going to lobby for you to direct it. Just feels like it’s so personal, you should do it yourself. Let’s talk about the Nicholl experience. Had you been submitting scripts along the way to various competitions over the last few years?

Kayla: Yeah I sent my first script to maybe seven or eight contests. It was a pilot and became a finalist at the Austin Film Festival. I went to their writers’ conference and it was also a great experience, so after I wrote this feature script, I also sent it around and it placed in a few competitions.

Scott: What about the Nicholl experience? Walk me through the whole thing. How you get selected for this and then you’re a semifinalist. So what was that all like?

Kayla: Yeah. They told us that there was some problem with the eligibility with our scripts and wanted to do a zoom call to clarify and we were all just afraid that we were going to be disqualified but when we got onto a zoom they were just like, hi, meet each other, you’re this year’s finalist.

We were just very, very surprised because I really thought there was something wrong with my script. The whole Nicholl committee, they really care about writers and they organize many events for us to get to know each other, to know past fellows, to promote the scripts. They made sure that we had the best experience. I attended all the events that were designed for us and really enjoyed every minute of it. We got to meet the Nicholl fellows who are all very experienced writers now and a lot of the recent writers and connect with each other. It felt more like we were welcomed into a big family rather than winning an award.

So that was the best part of it. And simply the recognition of Nicholl got me contacts from managers reps and I got repped very soon.

Scott: And you’re with Bellevue?

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: That’s always good to hear when the people get represented off that and Bellevue is terrific. I mean, I’ve interviewed quite a few of their clients, so, good for you.

Kayla: Thank you.

Scott: Well, again, congratulations and thanks on letting me read the script. I really enjoyed that. Let’s ask a few craft questions, if you don’t mind. I’m not sure how you’re going to answer this. How do you come up with story ideas? Maybe they’re just floating around in there.

Kayla: Yeah, it’s hard to say. “Boy, Girl, Fig” just evolved around the character I had in mind, but I have many other ideas that were based on dreams of mine. I often wake up and remember what I just saw in the dream, and when I thought the character and what they were trying to do were interesting, I would write them down. And they were usually very complicated dreams, with many scenes and plots. Some time later, I look at what I wrote down and think, OK, that’s an entire story on its own.

Scott: Well, a lot of writers think that the best writing is subconscious writing, right? I remember reading an article with a writer, Robert Rodriguez, who said he started doing this thing where he wrote first thing in the morning. When he would wake up, he’d get his computer out and start writing. So he wanted to have that fuzzy state you are in for the first 5 or 10 minutes. He wanted to be in that place still.

That brings me to your breaking story, as they say in Hollywood or prep writing, you’re talking about, well, I guess maybe you don’t use cards and maybe there’s some sort of outlining. Is there a specific approach that you use or is it just you’re feeling your way through this and you’re just thinking about these stories and do you have a specific process for breaking stories or is it just organic?

Kayla: I think they come out organically. I do develop a lot of stories at the same time, but then each story is developed for a long time.

I often describe like I have 10 drawers in my head and each is a different story. When I’m living my life, when I get inspirations, I will know which drawer to put the inspiration into, like which story it belongs to. Then the drawers will slowly get filled. And then five years later, I would think, OK, drawer number six is ready. Then I’m ready to write it.

When I get inspired, I will develop a part of one of the stories. I don’t push myself to just focus on one thing for a short period of time. I just let them live for a really long time because sometimes you can’t force the inspirations to come. And a lot of the plots just really come out of nowhere.

I especially come up with ideas when I’m driving or I’m waiting for an airplane, just when I have nothing to do, I will think about stories. Then some of the plots will come together themselves. I think the most important thing for me is I don’t write a story before I know they’re really ready. But when I know they’re ready, they already have 90 percent of the flesh and meat in there.

Scott: And are you at any point creating treatments or is it all in your head?

Kayla: I don’t have treatments or outlines, but I have a Google Doc for every story. And when I have something, I write them down, but it’s not super organized. It’s just bits of plots and thoughts.

Scott: OK, so now I’m thinking from what I hear, because like when you were talking about the origin of this story, it originated with characters, right?

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: Is that accurate? Is that often where the stories come from?

Kayla: Oh, not with others, but this one was strictly from the character.

Scott: OK, so how do you go from…there’s a character in your mind, you have an idea for this character, how do you then find them? How do you then develop them? Is it more of a process of you interacting with them or you are more intentional about it, you know what I mean? Is it more of an outside in approach or is it inside out?

Kayla: It’s more like I’m an outside person. I’m just a set of eyes looking at the characters. I don’t really experience the characters myself.

Scott: Yeah.

Kayla: I never rushed to write a story. I just let them live in my mind, but sometimes I’ll get inspired. I’ll suddenly think, for example, what if that character lives here and starts their lives here? And this is what they’re going to do, what they’re going to experience.

I had some failed attempts with Velare at first. Like I had the story of her living on the border of America and Mexico. That story just completely didn’t work out. But then I put her out again and then thought about a simpler love story. And then when it worked, I kept thinking about it.

Scott: These two, you can see why people wanted them to be together in your script. Now the dialogue, you got a good ear for it, I think. I mean, would you say you have a good ear for dialogue? Because I loved reading your dialogue in the script.

Kayla: Ah, thank you. Actually, I’m not sure. You know, I’m Chinese. Sometimes when I read my own writing in English, I feel like some dialogue might be awkward. I thought it was OK for this one because it’s a fairy tale and they just have to convey what they’re trying to say, but it doesn’t have to be super organic all the time. I felt like I was allowed to let them say weird things.

Scott: I think you’re trilingual. Is that right?

Kayla: Yeah.

Scott: What languages? English and…?

Kayla: English, Chinese and Japanese.

Scott: OK. All right. So what about the theme? Do you think about the theme and if so how do you think about it in terms of your storytelling?

Kayla: Yeah. Theme is what I will consciously think about because it’s also one of the most important things to me. Once I have certain characters and certain plots I will use the theme as the guideline to decide what I should leave out and what I should keep. Because, I want my stories to have good meaningful themes.

If I write something but then realize they’re just not contributing to the character arc and especially not related to the theme, those are something that I will cut out.

Scott: Do you think in terms of trying to find a central theme like one key theme for a story?

Kayla: Yeah, I do that. It’s usually one key theme.

Scott: What about when you’re writing a scene? Like, what are your goals when you write a scene?

Kayla: I realized that when I write scenes, this was not a conscious decision at first, but then once I thought about it, I actually try to go by it. I want my scene to start and end at different places.

A lot of good writing is, you start a scene thinking that they’re feeling this way, but by the end they’re feeling completely different. I like my scenes to be like that, to have some kind of change in the middle and I usually only allow myself a few scenes where nothing changes.

Scott: You say you’re writing a novel. Is this the first novel for you?

Kayla: First novel, yeah.

Scott: So, OK, it’s similar writing to screenwriting, but it’s different.

Kayla: Oh, it’s so different, especially when I’m not a native speaker. It’s actually much, much harder.

Scott: OK, so maybe let’s talk a bit about that. What do you find hard about writing a novel?

Kayla: When I first imagine the stories, they’re usually in screenplay format, but I sometimes ask myself, could this story be a novel? And when I thought about “Boy, Girl, Fig,” I thought it could be a novel. That’s why I started to write this. But I think as a novel, I want the flow and the wording to really pull people in so each word has more responsibility. As opposed to a screenplay, where I just need to describe what they’re seeing, what they’re saying. With a novel, I think I have higher standards. So I spend more time just crafting each sentence, each word.

Scott: And how far along are you in writing this novel now?

Kayla: I basically have a full draft, but it’s a first draft, so it’s not good enough. I’m doing rewrites every day.

Scott: And you want to share the storyline for it or the logline or premise?

Kayla: It’s the same as the screenplay.

Scott: Oh, is that right? OK. I have one last question. I always ask this question, which is, what’s the single best piece of advice you could offer someone who is an aspiring screenwriter?

Kayla: One of the best advice that got me off my feet was don’t wait for something to happen. Don’t wait for permissions. Do something active. Do something that you can control.

In this industry there’s a lot of waiting around. And writers can’t control that. But what you can control is you sit down and you write the next one. It keeps you in a good mentality and it keeps you in control of your life and you can always create more when you try to do that.

Kayla is repped by Bellevue Productions.

For my interviews with every Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winner since 2012, go here.