Go Into The Story Interview: Beth Curry

My conversation with the 2020 Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winner.

Beth Curry wrote the original screenplay “Lemon” which won a 2020 Nicholl Fellowship in Screenwriting. I had the opportunity to chat with Beth about her creative background, her award-winning script, the craft of screenwriting, and what winning the Nicholl Award has meant to her.

Scott Myers: You’re a screenwriter, and given the various projects you’ve got, you can even put producer in there. Could you give us some context? What’s the elevator pitch of how you became who you are and what you do in the entertainment business?

Beth Curry: Hmm. That’s a good question. I would say I have creative ADD. I find that being a multi-hyphenate feeds the other creative parts within me. I look at all of my different projects as baby birds. I feed my musical project here. I feed my screenwriting over here. Over the past few years, it’s been more screenwriting than anything else. That birds pretty chunky now.

I think that by being a multi-hyphenate, it enriches the other projects I do as well. How did I land there? That’s a really good question. I started doing musical theater and community theater in San Luis Obispo, California, and then did some professional theater as well.

Then I went to SMU, and studied theater, just straight theater. Every summer, I would go to New York thinking, “OK, I’m going to go to move here when I graduate and try to be on Broadway.” Then when I graduated college, my mom passed away, so I came back to LA, and I stayed here instead to be closer to my dad.

In LA, I did musical theater. I started getting into music and writing — writing just music, not screenwriting. Then in 2005, I randomly auditioned for this show which circuitously led me to New York where I got my first Broadway show.

I stayed there for five years. I did “Legally Blonde” from top to bottom, and then I did the tour of Young Frankenstein. I played the Madeline Kahn role. During that show, I had a lot of time offstage. I would fall asleep. I would do P90X, anything to stay awake.

That’s when I discovered writing. I copied the structure of Curb Your Enthusiasm. I wrote a pilot, and had the cast do a reading of it. And that…hooked me. I was hooked! That was my last musical theater show and probably will be, thank God, because I don’t want to slap down into the splits eight times a week anymore. I’m grateful for those days…but those days are diggety done. That was a very long answer, but that’s how I became who I am creatively. I’m just a creative being. Doesn’t matter if I’m singing it, writing it, acting it, whatever — it’s just that high you get from being creative…from flowing.

Scott: It’s all storytelling, too.

Beth: Yeah.

Scott: Let’s talk about your band, Totsy. When did that start?

Beth: Totsy — I collaborated with my partner, Brett Boyett, on that project. We wrote one song, “Dope on a Rope,” before I went to New York. Then when I came back from New York, we continued doing it. We wrote songs specifically for placements in film and TV.

Then we had a catalog of songs, and he was like, “We should play out.” I was like, “OK.” Of course, my branding mind, I was like, “It needs to be a bit heightened and retro. Vintage!” Then the image was born, and we went on the road, and it’s still living. I can’t fit in the costume anymore, but it’s still going.

Scott: How would you describe the music?

Beth: We call it burlesque pop, which makes no sense. I don’t even know what you would call it. It’s just Totsy.

Scott: It’s a lot of fun. I encourage people to check it out online. You’re sitting there as an actor waiting to deliver your lines as the Madeline Kahn character. Young Frankenstein, the poo-pooh undies line

Beth: You know what? The poo-pooh undies line didn’t make it.

Scott: Seriously?

Beth: I never got to say “poo-pooh undies.” I did not.

Scott: Maybe she ad-libbed that.

Beth: Yeah, maybe. My life is not lived. I’m going to say “poo-pooh undies” every day now for the rest of my life.

[laughter]

Scott: You’re waiting between getting on stage, discover this writing thing, Curb Your Enthusiasm. Yeah, you enjoy it. You’re not going to film school. How did you go about learning the craft of screenwriting?

Beth: When the Young Frankenstein tour came to LA at the Pantages Theatre, Meredith Stiehm came to the show. She’s a friend. Actually, she’s the wife of my friend’s brother-in-law. It’s confusing. Anyway, she came to the show. She’s a huge fan of musical theater.

We met up, and she was like, “I would love to do what you do.” I was like, “I would love to do what you do.” She said, “Really?” Then she invited me to her writer’s group called Safehouse, and I have been there ever since. That’s where I learned how to write.

I’ve always had my voice, I think, but I had to learn structure — I’m still learning. I always say, “I need my writer’s group. I need as much perspective as I can get because I’m only as strong as the people around me.” I’ll always going to be a collaborator. I don’t know how writers have the perspective to see things that need to be changed. I need the mirror of a writer’s group.

Scott: How long have you been part of that group?

Beth: 10 years.

Scott: Wow.

Beth: I know.

Scott: Over a decade. How many people are in the group?

Beth: It varies, but writer-wise, only three writers go every week. There’s a whole gaggle of actors. Writer-wise, there’s probably like 30 writers. Then actor-wise, there’s probably like 60 actors, and you cast it, and then you put up your pages. After, people comment on the writing, not the acting or directing, and it’s really helpful.

Scott: One of the things I read on your website which I found quite compelling because it’s actually something that I have pinned on my Twitter feed, a very similar sentiment.

It says, “Beth strives to write stories that increase empathy. She loves telling stories that inspire someone to consider, quote, ‘the other side of things,’ giving them a new perspective. She strives always to include three Hs in her writing, honesty, hilarity, and heart.” Always there from the beginning, or is that something that’s evolved in your writing?

Beth: I think that’s something that’s evolved in my writing. Right now, we’re in an unprecedented time, and I feel like it’s really important to create stories of empathy because if you can understand the other side, you can’t hate the other side as much.

I’m just trying to create stories that create a little more empathy, not like a huge come-to-Jesus moment, but just a little more awareness and kindness for someone or something you don’t understand. I’m always drawn to stories of the underdog.

Scott: Absolutely. We live in such a heightened time of acrimony, even dehumanization. To be able to put a human face on the other makes it much more challenging for demagoguery to exist if you see the humanity in them.

Beth: Exactly. That’s definitely evolved over time. I’ve always felt like an underdog in my own life. I grew up with crazy red, huge, frizzy hair, no two front teeth. I dressed myself. I kind of looked like a hobo. I just always felt like an underdog in everything I did, so I will always resonate with those stories.

Scott: That’s perfect training for being a screenwriter, being the underdog.

Beth: Absolutely.

Scott: Also, I segue into your Nicholl-winning script, Lemon, which features this little girl who is absolutely an underdog and trying to navigate her life. The logline: “When Lemon’s agoraphobic mother dies suddenly, six-year-old Lemon goes outside for the first time in search of her father.”

You say Beasts of a Southern Wild meets Room. What was the original inspiration for the story? Was it Lemon, or was it some other character? How did you come up with this?

Beth: My husband is my muse. He hates talking about writing, but I somehow and sometimes get him to talk about stories and whatnot. He sublet his room in Florida years and years ago. He sublet to this woman and her little girl. They would just stay in their room, day and night, and hardly come out.

He said that they were very sweet, and they coexisted together. I’ve just used that image and created a story around them.

I’m also selfish with my writing sometimes. I work through my own personal issues in a camouflaged way when I write. I have hypochondria. I used Lemon’s fear of the unknown to work through my own hypochondria.

She goes from being conditioned to fear what she doesn’t know, believing that the world is going to steal her soul, to a loving place of unconditional trust. Watching Lemon go from fear to trust…that’s a lesson I want to learn. And writing through my issues is cheaper than therapy.

Scott: There are four primary characters I’d like to discuss with you and get your impressions of each. Of course, the first one is Lemon. How would you describe her personality beyond the fact that she’s raised in such a way that she’s got this fear-based attitude about the outside world?

Beth: We’re all born with a certain fire inside of us. Lemon is born with a warrior spirit. She is conditioned to fear from her mom. She’s taught that that’s how you survive in this world, is to fear what you can’t control or what you don’t know, but inside of her, she innately has this warrior spirit.

For me, she’s a survivor. She’s somebody who, like myself, uses her imagination to put herself at ease. As you see in the draft, her imagination is really active in the beginning, and fades away because she doesn’t need it as much in the end.

For me, my imagination is my salve. It’s something that just soothes me, especially right now in a world that’s so crazy. I love sitting down to my computer and writing a world that I can control. For Lemon, her imagination is her best friend.

Scott: She’s creative. I noticed in the first ten pages, there are four moments where she’s looking at the world or things around her, and they become alive in a way. How are you imagining that? Is it like an animation thing, or is it like live action in her mind, that she’s a character in it?

Beth: It would be live action. It’s so interesting because when I first did one draft of this, I had all her little drawn-out characters coming to life and saying things. Tonally, it was getting all over the place. All those heightened moments or surreal moments are definitely live action, like when her duck comes to life in the bath and says something to her.

I’m a very visual writer. I will see things very clearly as I write. I don’t know how people can’t see things clearly.

Scott: As I tell my film school students all the time — and they get sick of it — I say movies and TV are primarily visual media. As you say, Lemon draws these little paper figures. She has an interactive life with them. She’s a drawer. She sees things visually. They come to life.

Yet she has been, in a way, conditioned by her mother, Pip, to see the world in a very scary and frightening way. In fact, you have a wonderful setup and payoff of this book that they read together, a children’s book, “Mr. Pancake’s Pets,” which is going along like any children’s book, and then Pip has rewritten the ending of the book to read: “The world is evil. We must never go outside, but in here, we are happy. Let’s eat.”

Beth: Yeah. [laughs]

Scott: That really says something about the mother character, Pip. Could you talk to me about this agoraphobic, this obese woman — what’s going on with her?

Beth: I played that her husband was shot and killed early on, and it just made her fear going outdoors, fear the world, making herself numb out with food. I think it’s her form of love, instilling all of this fear into Lemon. She feels like she’s protecting Lemon.

I just wanted to create a character — who is doing her best to just survive. She doesn’t have a lot of resources to help herself out of this. She’s just doing her best.

Scott: That’s one thing I think that’s terrific about the story, is that each of your characters has a plausible rationale for why they are the way they are. The mom, even though you really feel badly for Lemon that she’s living this — I mean, her dream is to go outside and hug a tree, literally, at the beginning. You feel awful that that’s literally the height of your aspirations.

Yet you do get a feeling that the mother is doing something that she feels is being protective of her daughter.

Beth: Yes.

Scott: You mentioned the movie Room.

Beth: Sure, yeah.

Scott: Right? Yeah. Then The Beasts of the Southern Wild is more of that imaginative warrior type of a child, right?

Beth: Exactly, yeah.

Scott: You got a wonderful setup of the ordinary world, and then the mother dies. Eventually, though it takes some time, Lemon has to go out — heroine’s journey — leave the old world, go into the new world.

How much were you thinking about that from the beginning, the concept — we’re in the Joseph Campbell realm of leaving the ordinary world, going out into the extraordinary world, that type of thing — or was this more instinctual for you?

Beth: It’s pretty instinctual. When I outline things, it’s kind of a rough…I knew that she would run out of food, and I knew that she would have to go outside. I always had the image of her living in the closet. I love that image of someone living in a closet …while the person who lives there has no idea that they are there.

That to me is so freaky and delightful all at the same time. I knew that she would arrive there. Now, the Michael character — he wasn’t as fully formed in the first few drafts. He was more like a device than he was an actual human being, in the beginning, which took some sculpting.

Scott: There’s an interesting shift in the story I want to talk to you about later, but let’s get into this third character. We talked about Lemon. We’ve talked about Pip, the mom. Now the third character, Michael Archer. This is a guy who is living on his own, alone.

Lemon sees him and manages to stealth her way into his apartment and find his closet. There’s this interesting little sequence whereby she’s living there unbeknownst to him. Talk to me about Michael. You say he’s more of a device early on, but then it took a while for you to develop this character. How would you describe that character now that you got through this many drafts of the script?

Beth: Yeah, he was a device in the beginning. Then I think — was it my managers who read, and they said, “We want to know more about Michael. Why is he there? What’s his deal?” I knew that he was grieving, [clears throat] excuse me — but I didn’t know beyond that. I didn’t know the specifics of him. It was kind of a very broad painting job in the beginning.

Getting down to the details of him, it’s actually kind of interesting because I think the grief that he has is maybe something that Pip had. Grief, being all consuming and isolating…it changes somebody. I lost my mom when I was twenty-two. I lost my dad nine years ago.

Grief has always been something which I’ve learned to embrace in my life, but I think for a lot of people, it can lead you down a very isolated path. I really wanted to show how grief led Michael to places that he never anticipated, especially with alcoholism and whatnot.

Scott: I had a friend who was a poet. I was starting a script project the next day in which a character was confronting — they were terminally ill. I emailed him and said, “Could you just send me a poem about death?” He emailed me back and said, “Scott, all poems are about death.”

Beth: Are about death, yeah.

Scott: I have thought about that in terms of stories, whether you think of them physically or metaphorically. Death is a threat in the story. Pip has lost a husband and a son in a tragic way. Michael has lost —

Beth: Also tragically.

Scott: …a wife, again, and a son — and so does Lemon, who lost her mom. It’s not just people dying. It’s dying in sort of like the comet hits — boom. The beer truck comes and knocks ’em over. Do you think that was instinctual? It’s like speaking to the fragility of life?

Beth: Yeah, absolutely. I always say, with this story, it’s about two people who truly need each other… find each other. I feel like it’s so easy to isolate in times of grief and in times of — even right now. Even while we’re quarantined and while we’re separated, we need each other more than ever.

I feel like this is an ode to where we are — I didn’t know it at the time — obviously, before writing this, I had no idea 2020 would take a big poop all over us, but I feel like this is a time where we need each other. I think there needs to be stories that show us truly being human and needing each other. Needing connection.

For me, it’s two grieving people who find each other. And I love how Lemon has witnessed Michael when he doesn’t think he’s being seen. That level of honesty when we don’t realize we’re being watched.

Eventually, I want an actor for Michael…someone who can really allow themselves to be raw and stripped down. It’s a great role. To see somebody that stripped down is — I think we’re all intrigued by that.

Scott: Yeah, connection is a theme in the story. There’s a wonderful sequence whereby Lemon’s in the apartment, but Michael doesn’t know she’s there. That’s maybe 10, 12 pages or so. One thing that she witnesses is a bird slams into the patio door.

Michael has an incredibly emotional experience with this bird, and she witnesses this level of empathy that he’s got toward this wounded creature. Even as she is a survivor and she’s struggling to find a way to maintain herself so that she can continue her search for her father, which is a quest that is resolved in a different way, there’s a really incredible moment.

I’m going to read this to you, and I’m going to ask you if you remember the very first time you wrote this version of it. He’s sleeping, and she emerges from the closet.

“She edges up behind him and gently wraps her arms around him. He stirs a bit and ducks down. Once he settles back in, she stands up again and gently hugs him.”

Such a touching moment. Do you remember when you first came up with that idea or you first wrote that — what you were feeling?

Beth: Like I said, I always see things first. It’s me watching the movie and then keeping up with it as I write it. It was very clear to me that Lemon is heart-forward. She’s just wants to love and be loved.

For me, she sees that Michael’s hurt. He’s injured, and she just wants to try to make it better in whatever way she can in her seven, six-year-old brain.

Scott: It’s more out of her comforting him rather than her seeking out a measure of comfort as well?

Beth: I think it’s probably both, but my intent of it was for her to make sure he’s OK. Even though she’s completely broken as a character, she was used to nurturing Pip, so maybe she’s long for that familiarity in that moment. That comfort.

Scott: Yeah, but she’s got that guileless nature of a child, where she doesn’t — she’s just not got that kind circumspect to be able to realize that as much as an adult.

Beth: Right.

Scott: There’s a fourth character I’d like to get your impressions on, and that’s Sheila, who is essentially a social worker, but she plays a really important role with regard to Michael and his evolution. Michael eventually does find that Lemon is there in his apartment.

Of course, there’s this big search for her because she’s missing and is on TV. Could you talk about the Sheila character? When did she emerge in your storytelling process?

Beth: She was like a device in the beginning too, because she was in the first few pages. With any social worker, it can be the only consistent person in a foster child’s life.

I was really intrigued with having Sheila come up through the system as well. I think a lot of people who give back in the way that she does, have been a part of that, sometimes, broken system and want to help make it better.

There was a moment where I was like, “They’re going to be romantically inclined.” Michael and Sheila will have a romantic thing. I shied away from that, because that’s not the story I’m telling. I just wanted it to be about Lemon and Michael.

Scott: She serves almost like a mentor figure where she could have easily become a romance figure.

Beth: Sheila’s somebody who, over the year, she was raised probably with tough circumstances as well. She is not afraid to give it to Michael very plainly and hold the mirror up in front of him and be like, “In my eyes, it looks like you guys need each other. I’m going to let you get there on your own, but you need each other.”

Scott: Lemon, at one point, about midway through the story, has this little anecdote about losing a pet turtle for a while. In this exchange with Michael, she says this rather innocuous comment, “I thought I lost something, but I found something.”

In a way, that speaks to a central theme of the story where Michael, who has lost his wife, finds something in Lemon. Lemon lost her mother and finds something in Michael.

Beth: For me, early on when I lost my mom, I remember feeling the grief and thinking this might take me down. I knew that my mom, wherever she was, probably wanted me to use that grief and allow it to help me grow.

For me, it’s about taking that shitty circumstance and finding growth. I mean, don’t flowers grow out of shit? [laughs] I don’t know. As I’m talking to you, I’m realizing it’s a lot about grief. I hadn’t realized that before this moment.

This piece is sort of an ode to people being intrinsically good. I think that we’re so divided right now, but innately, it’s just a story about how we need to love and be loved. It’s almost as simple as that. In a divided world, we need love. In a quarantine world, we need connection. In a world where we lose each other, we need each other. All themes of Lemon.

Scott: I’m an acolyte of Carl Jung. I don’t know how familiar you are with him. I tend to look at stories arising more out of the psychological needs of the characters. Immerse yourself in the lives of your characters. It feels like that’s what you’ve done with the story.

Jung has this great quote, which I when I read it about two decades ago blew my mind. He says, “The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside as fate.”

This is your story. Lemon, of all the people in the world whose apartment she could stumble into, she enters Michael’s apartment. It’s like these two people absolutely were fated to come together, that fate brought them together because they’re both flawed, they’re both broken, they’re both wounded. They both need love.

I’m sure you’re not thinking that as you’re writing it. You’re writing it contemporaneously with the characters, and they’re just emerging and it’s happening. If you step outside, can you see that narrative imperative, I guess you could say, of how the two needed to belong together?

Beth: Of course. We attract that in life sometimes too, be it negative or positive. There was a time when I dated some pretty emotionally unavailable people because I wasn’t in such a great spot myself. We kind of attract what we need in moments.

Scott: That there is a synergy between the inner life of characters.

Beth: Absolutely.

Scott: The second thing I wanted to talk to you about…There were these two things that I thought were quite interesting, and the first was that. The second thing is if you look at this and say, “Who’s the Protagonist of the story?” It’s clearly Lemon. She drives the story.

Yet you do an interesting pivot pretty late in the story where Michael takes over in a way that role because the Final Struggle is not taken from Lemon’s POV. The Final Struggle is him, where he’s got to overcome his self-doubts and fight back his fears and his inability or struggle with trusting himself that he’s capable of being a parent.

Did you always have that pivot to Michael’s character?

Beth: No. In life, we ping pong. I hit the ping pong to you, you hit it back to me. I feel like that’s life. In that part of the story, Lemon is in foster care. There’s very little that she can actively do besides just run away again. I feel like it had to go into his court a little bit.

Scott: You have some very nice setups and payoffs, which is something I look forward in stories. I enjoy them a lot. There’s this plot about Mr. Pancake’s pants. We talk about that original ending. The world is scary. Don’t go out there. At the very, very end, Michael is with Lemon. They’re reading the book, and she blurts out the ending. It’s like, “That’s the ending.”

Beth: Yep.

Scott: The real ending, which is, “The world is a loving place and people are good. When we are there for our neighbors, we are there for ourselves, and I’m here for you, Mr. Butter Sauce.” That probably sums up in a way the theme that you wanted to convey to people in the story?

Beth: Absolutely. It’s so funny. I haven’t read it in so long. I’m listening to it like, “Wait, did I write that?” I think it does sum it up. That again is my ode to all people being intrinsically good deep down. We’re just conditioned in different ways, receiving different facts, conditioned to fear different things, to hate different things, to just have different beliefs.

Scott: What’s the status of the script at this point?

Beth: I don’t know how much I’m supposed to say, but we have it out to some directors. We’re trying to get a director attached and the Michael character attached. The search for Lemon will be a whole show in itself, I’m sure.

It’s very important to me that she’s mixed. I really don’t care how mixed. She could be half Asian, half Hispanic, half Black. I just want her diverse in some way. I just opened it up because I don’t know how the casting process will be for finding this little girl. Right now, we are out to directors and actors. And we have an offer on the table from a production company, as well.

Scott: Great. Congratulations.

Beth: We’ll see.

Scott: When Sean Baker came to DePaul and he screened The Florida Project and talking with him, that little girl, Brooklyn, oh my God.

Beth: Oh my God.

Scott: I kept seeing her as Lemon.

Beth: I know. It’s just going to be some little, magical kid. It’s so funny, because for child actors, I feel like it’s a brief amount of time where they’re just wise enough, unfettered enough, and not quite conditioned enough.

It’s that perfect combination that if you get them a year or two years later, they’re out of it and too conditioned. I feel like we’ll attract the right little Lemmie, as I call her.

Scott: I trust that you will too, because this is a project that absolutely needs to get made.

Beth: That’s so sweet. Thank you.

Scott: Let’s jump into some craft questions here…

Beth: Hold on. This is so much fun. I haven’t talked this in-depth about a script in so long. My husband gets over me when I talk about writing too much. This is like Christmas for me. This is great.

Scott: That’s why I do it, because it’s fun. I love talking story. I’ve done it with every Nicholl winner since 2012

Beth: I know. I read all your articles. They’re so good. They’re so inspiring.

Scott: Okay, so apart from bothering your husband about his personal history in subletting and Florida, how do you come up with story ideas?

Beth: I’m very visual. For instance, my Nicholl script that I’m working on right now, I had this image of this woman on a…Do you know what a penny-farthing is?

Scott: Yes.

Beth: The bike with the big, huge front wheel and the smaller back wheel. I had this image of this older woman on a penny-farthing in a blue and white stripe bathing suit in the ’30s. I’m like, “What the fuck is that?” It kept nagging at my brain.

Then I look up “women on bicycles.” Then I see oh, that’s very interesting. It kind of mirrors the female suffrage movement. Then I found one incident in 1888 where these not very noteworthy women come together and ride down Pennsylvania Avenue being the first time women are seen on bicycles. I was like, “That’s amazing. That’s the end of the film.”

For me, an image can be a little gift…that starts an entire journey. Lemon started out with a story and my own personal needs. The beginning sees for me are usually an image, a feeling or a theme.

Scott: The image thing is interesting. I’m a huge fan of the Coen brothers. For example, Miller’s Crossing, which is this really complex crime drama, began with one of them — I can’t remember who — having an image of a hat being tossed in the woods. That’s where it all started.

Beth: I love that.

Scott: How about prep writing? There’s the diversity of opinion. Some people just start in with Fade In, which I think it’s pretty insane. Where are you on this? How do you go about developing a story before you type Fade In or do you just jump in and start writing?

Beth: I usually know the first ten pages, I would say. I can see that in my head. Then I will sit down and do a very, very rough outline. I’m not somebody who likes outlines. If I’m ever paid for a treatment or outline, I’ll have to write the whole script and then do an outline.

I’m somebody who is instinctual and will discover moments in the story as they unfold. I can’t see it in an outline all the time. For me, it’s a very, very rough outline. I know OK, this is the midpoint. This is the all is lost moment. I still use “Save the Cat” somewhat. [laughs]

It reveals itself as it goes. It’s a blob of clay. My first go at it is like, “Oh, what is that? A mushroom? No.” You keep carving and discovering things as you go. It’s never clear on my first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth draft. It takes me a long time to arrive at what it actually is.

Scott: I always tell people there’s no one way to write. Every writer is different. Every story is different. That said, I know you’ve got at least a couple TV projects going.

Beth: We have a script with Heather Graham attached. For the pitch, we’re doing a 10-episode series. Of course, I had to like go, “OK, what are these episodes?” I had to investigate what that characters’ journey was. For me, I’m character forward all the time. I’m flawed character forward. If I have a flawed character, I feel like there’s just so much ground I can cover.

Scott: Let’s talk about that. To me, it’s all about character, the plot arising from them. You mentioned, for example, let’s specifically say a character like Michael, who at first, and Lemon, you said was more of a device.

When your manager said, “Hey, we need to know more about this character,” how did you go about then developing Michael so he became more thoughtfully flushed out character?

Beth: It was also, “We can’t attract anyone without it being a juicy role. We need a name for this, so you need to go a little deeper.” I was like, “Right.”

I made Michael an addict, because for me, I’ve definitely had my own addiction struggles. As have the people around me.

I’m always fascinated with what we do to avoid feeling what we need to feel. Be it food, be it drugs, be it alcohol, be it gambling, be it sex. Whatever it is, I’m fascinated with that avoidance. For me, Michael was that. What lengths do I go to avoid feeling what I have to feel?

Scott: That was your key into him in terms of developing more fully?

Beth: Absolutely, yeah.

Scott: Given your background as an actor and studying theater, does dialogue come naturally to you, do you think, because of that or is it something that you have to work at?

Beth: Dialogue is probably the easiest thing that comes to me. I feel like I, as an actor, you know what feels right when you say it. You just know what you’d want to say as an actor and not those lines where you’re like, “Oh, God. That’s terrible.”

I’ve always been into banter. I remember in seventh grade, it was my superpower. I was an awkward kid and looked like freaking Eric Stoltz in “Mask.” I wasn’t the cute girl. So… banter was my superpower.

For me, the dialogue, if I’m doing a comedic script, which I just finished an action rom-com, was fun because I love to banter. I like dialogue. The part that I struggle with is structure, a lot of the times. I need to take your class.

[laughter]

Scott: The nice thing about Lemon, a lot of my students who are good with dialogue tend to really rely on it. I keep telling them, again what we were talking about earlier, I said it’s primarily a visual medium. Why talk about something when you can visualize it.

Beth: Let me tell you. I have to strip away dialogue because my Achilles heel is on-the-nose dialogue, or these moments that are not very camouflaged or obvious. It takes me a while to bury some stuff. I get excited about a moment, and then I just want to tell you ALL about it.

Scott: How do you take a moment that you’ve written where the character said the point on the nose, and then how do you move it into the realm of subtext?

Beth: You just delete the line and find a look, or find a “smooths her skirt,” or, “curls her lips,” or whatever it is that’s making her self-conscious. As an actor, that’s maybe where it helps because as a character, when you’re acting, everything you’re saying is sometimes not what you’re saying. It’s interesting to embody the character as an actor as well.

Scott: You’re sitting down. You’re starting your writing day, you’ve got a scene that you’re going to write, because that’s what we do. Screenwriters, we write scenes. What do you think about when you’re writing a scene? Are there specific goals you have in mind?

Beth: I have to set a timer for myself sometimes because I’ll be like, “Oh, I need to take the trash out. Oh, I need to re-grout the counter top. This is not essential to my writing process,” but if I have time without alerts on my computer or phone or anything like that, I can go for a while. I get sucked in.

I don’t really have any goal. Usually, it’s about a page count. I will sit down and handcuff myself to the chair. Wait, no, I couldn’t write if I did that… but you know what I mean. Tie myself to the chair and be like, “OK, you’re sitting down and you’re writing 10 pages or you’re writing fifteen pages,” or whatever it is.

Usually, if I have a good understanding of the upcoming moments or I know where I’m going, I can go there. Then, I’ll pick up a surprise on the way and be like, “Oh, I didn’t see that. It just sort of happens.” For me, there’s no real goal.

Scott: Is there something you love about writing, or do you find it torturous?

Beth: Oh, my God. No. It is my oxygen. I fucking love it. There’s nothing I love more. I’m a dork. I love writing. It’s how I calm myself down. Even when I was waiting in the waiting room for Nicholl, they put us all in the waiting room to tell us if we won or not, I was writing. It’s the only thing that can calm me down.

Especially right now, like, “Oh, I’m going to sit at my computer and create a world that I can control.” Yes, please. People say I write fast, but I don’t know. I just write because it’s what brings me peace and joy. And I write all over the map…lots of different genres.

I was with a manager at one point, and he was like, “You’re just drama. Pick this lane. You’re just drama.” I was like, “Urr,” but I’m not. I’m now with managers, two women, who are badasses, who are like, “All right.” I’ll throw them an action rom-com. Then I’ll throw them Lemon. They’re game and able to work with whatever I throw at them.

I’m not concerned about writing anything commercially or appeasing anyone. I write a script, because I need to write it. It’s gotta come out…or I’ll get backed up. Ha. Lots of poop references, here. Writing, at this stage, is purely selfish. I write what I need to write.

Scott: Again, this is a perfect example of why I say if you want the path of least resistance, and through having talked to a zillion managers and battling them with it, this whole idea about OK, write three scripts in the same genre that are $10 million or $20 million and under. That makes their life easy because then they can brand you, and they put you up for that.

There are plenty of other writers that I know that all are over the map and write whatever they want to write. You got to find those people. Elevate — is that your management company at this point?

Beth: Yes. They’re awesome.

Scott: You got to find people who respect that. That’s going to be more work for them, but they’re going to also have a happier client who’s going to more likely to create something that’s going to lift up on the page and people will respond to it. Good for you is what I’m…

Beth: We have a lot of projects all over the place. A comedy series, a dramedy, a drama…

Then during the last few months, I was like, “I need comedy. I need to laugh.” I wrote shit that makes me fucking laugh. It’s hilarious, but even in an action rom-com, these characters are flawed and need each other. They’re both flawed in their own ways and have emotional journeys.

I can’t not write that. I don’t care if I’m writing a Marvel movie or a rom-com or anything. I need flawed characters that need to go on a journey.

Scott: Final question… what advice can you offer to aspiring screenwriters about learning the craft, and trying to break into the business?

Beth: I would say follow your gut. You are the only person to tell the story that you want to tell. You have a unique voice. Don’t try to fit in with anything else. Learn the rules, and then break the rules. Write every day. Show up even when the critic inside of you is telling you that you’re just writing a bunch of crap. Just keep going because you’ll get to the good stuff eventually.

I would say be consistent with your art like anything else really make time, make space for it and don’t give up. There have been so many times that I’ve cried in my car in the parking lot of my writer’s group from a tough night of notes.

A writer’s group is also good because it teaches you how to take notes. You’re going to have a lot of opinions. You’re going to have studio notes. You’re going to have network notes. A writer’s group preps you for that because you get a lot of differing opinions and you have to stick to your instinct. What is going to propel this story forward, what story am I telling?

It could be fuck all these notes, I’m sticking to my guns. But I find even in a “bad note” or a note that you don’t think applies, there can be a gem. It’s just about dropping your ego and allowing it in. I think trusting your inner storyteller and your instinct is what will fuel your storytelling. I don’t know if that’s good advice.

Scott: No, I think it is absolutely.

Beth: Also, another thing is the theme. When I start out with a story, I really start with, “What am I working through or what theme am I telling here?” I make sure that that is in every scene that I’m writing, that it is somehow touched upon.

Scott: Great. This has been a hoot.

Beth: Oh, my God. This was the best conversation ever. Will you marry me?

[laughter]

For my interviews with every Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winners since 2012, go here.